Encouraging piracy? BluRay to get unskippable FBI warning
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
7750 posts
In a move to educate the public several studios have agreed to run 2x10 second unskippable warnings back to back on all their BluRays
An ICE spokesman tells me that the two screens will "come up after the previews, once you hit the main movie/play button on the DVD. At which point the movie rating comes up, followed by the IPR Center screen shot for 10 secs and then the FBI/HSI anti-piracy warning for 10 secs as well. Neither can be skipped/fast forwarded through."
Way to value-add and differentiate your product over the pirated version, force a 20 second delay on people using something they've bought.
I tried to watch a Blu-ray movie a while back and could only get my hands on a 3-year old player.
Let's just say it took 8 minutes from popping the disc in till the first frame of the movie started. Most of the time was spent with the warnings and animated features/menus.
My dad buys everything on Bluray - I just download them in parallel to watch without all the crap.
Yeah, I've been reading a fair bit about this. Can't understand why they don't go the opposite route and reward people for buying their movies. Not sure how well Nintendo's reward points system works from buying their games but something like that perhaps would be a better option than punishing people for buying movies.
Avengers breaks box office records, smashing harry potter in opening week sales by like 35m and climbing.
Studios claim piracy is ruining them and hurting sales.
Also way to encouorage piracy more you fucking twats. You would think that by making a physical product an annoyance to own would, you know, mean people don't want to own it.
If Blu-Ray wasn't shit and frustrating enough already...
I agree that all this does is punish the people who paid for the movie.
I don't care though, I bought a couple Blu-Ray's to test the format out, and while the quality is good I feel like it has overall been a regrettable decision and a bit of a waste of money. After the Star Wars releases which wouldn't fucking work in my player, and I found the source of the problem is a newly created DRM which blocks it on "older" equipment (mine isn't even that old), I am done with this Blu-Ray bullshit.
My movies, songs, games, various digital media etc. don't suck, people are just pirating them!
LOL. It's like these people and companies are the contestants that were turned away on American Idol. SIMON IS A JERK : ( : ( : ( I'M GOING TO BE A STAR HE JUST DOESN'T KNOW GOOD SINGING WHEN HE HEARS IT! :~(
DM, welcome to greedy CEO's and people who don't understand today's technology and that there are now ways to entice people to buy their products. If everyone did what Gabe Newell said and actually make a product worthwhile then people will go and buy it.
So they're expecting what, that the guy deliberately, knowingly copying this isn't going to just remove this annoying waning from their copy, and not sell it with a massive banner that says "buy my copy instead, it has no annoying 20 second warning you're forced to sit through... and it costs $15 less"?
WTF do these boneheads expect?
I'm beginning to think their business model is based on advertising pirate copies and then seeking to make more money out of suing people who make/buy pirate copies rather than the copies they sell... and they're just trying to figure out more ways to make that business model work.
Yep, they did have unskippable FBI warnings which was annoying enough but they're now adding a second one.
I'm wondering if the standards in HDMI cables have more to do with older players not being compatible rather than the player itself e.g. HDMI 1.2 , 1.3, 1.4 etc.
Ridiculous system. I think that's the final nail in my BluRay coffin and I'm going to get to work converting them all to MKV so I can watch without using their stupid system. It was bad enough paying the ~$150 for the BluRay player but the constant updates to TMT and needing to buy a new version every year or so isn't worth it any more.
I don't think so TSPEC. I think the thing is that Blu-Rays don't simply play media files, they play an application which is a software media player that can decode the media files on the disc. Different blu-ray discs can have a different software players, and as the software becomes more advanced (i.e. more of a clusterfuck to reverse engineer) that software can have compatibility issues.
TicMan I would hold off on the MKV conversion, Matroska are working on adding menus to the MKV containers which will hopefully mean you can convert the entire blu-ray menu system to the MKV menu system. Although I think their main focus is on supporting the features of DVD menus as a priority.
Because this tactic worked so well for VHS cassettes. Seriously, they must surely know this stuff doesn't work. How could they possibly think otherwise. It is beyond me, guess that is why I'm not a copyright expert or something.
Maybe they have an overarching plan of increasing complexity that ultimately results them releasing Limited Edition Digital Download Copies with a special feature that has all the unskippable stuff cut out.
I can deal with warnings. But when they have unskippable trailers. That's when I rage.
I find you mostly wait for all the stupid scene selection/special feature screens to load. They put so much effort into making interactive features when most people just wanna watch the fucking movie.
I don't get the point of having trailers on before the movie. Sure if you want to put some on in the Extras part of the menu go right ahead but before? The only reason I buy movies anymore is to actually support the ones I really enjoy but even then I never watch them or even open the disc up because I already have 1080p rips of them on my PC.
The board members needed to do something to look like work while sitting on their arse, collecting $$$ from the hit movies. The problem I seem to notice a lot these days is that older people are in charge of making big decisions and it is not helping anyone. Things move faster these days and some of these people can not keep up with technology.
I'd love to see the strategic plans for these companies, and then step through one by one and ask "so which part of your strategic plan does each of these align with, and do you see how what you're doing is preventing you better achieving these other strategic goals?"
I don't see why everyone is getting all antsy in their pantsy about this. It's nothing new. It's been happening since VHS tapes. You get a VHS movie and there's a warning on it and a bunch of previews for other movies. Sure you can fast forward through them on VHS but by the time you've FFWd through them, the FBI shit on the blu-ray movie will be over and you'll be on your way to watching the movie.
As for blu-rays taking 8 minutes to load, when I bought mine I asked about that and the guy said yeah some of them are piss poor and slow so I asked to have a demo of a BD player before I bought it. Mine starts up nice & fast for the most part. Sometimes it'll sit there just spinning but I think it's trying to connect to the internet or something to update the firmware ( I see firmware update messages on some discs).
I'd love to see the strategic plans for these companies, and then step through one by one and ask "so which part of your strategic plan does each of these align with, and do you see how what you're doing is preventing you better achieving these other strategic goals?"
Some fat cat who has no idea how the world works says : we need messages to stop people copying our discs
Some guy in the know says: But the pirates don't care and just remove it so no one sees it anyway
Some fat cat says: It'll work, you'll see
Everyone at the board meeting: *rolleyes*
I don't know how long the previews were on my sherlock holmes disc but soon as they started playing I hit FFW and they went away, up came the piracy warning for about 5 seconds or whatever, by the time I'd looked away and looked back it was gone and I was at the menu.
^^ Nostalgic and ironic? Pirating the anti piracy video! double rainboooooowwwwww.
ulz, ive never bought a bluray in my life
if i did and i had to sit through shitty warnings and crap that i dint want to see, id be hardcore raging
ill stick to only watching free to download media only content thanks
Not really directed at you, more to this kind of thinking and people who think alike.
I buy movies that I really like because I think if someone makes an awesome enough movie they deserve to get paid for it.
Are people's lives micro managed so far down to the millisecond that they can't bear to be inconvenienced by a couple of minutes while the video starts up? How is it any different to installing a game and having to sit there clicking through all the pages of the installer only to then have to wait for the game to install? Does this frustrate you too? Installer screens are "unskippable". Maybe you'd rather have the game start installing as soon as you put the cd in before you even see any prompts, or maybe you'd rather have steam download every single game in existence all so they'd be ready for your micromanaged schedule when and if you decide to play them?
Would you rather see the disc load up straight away and play the movie without any prompts and the FBI warnings at the very end of the show? Would you buy movies then? You'll say yes, but the real answer is no, you won't because you're too cheap.
Everyone blames FBI warnings, over pricing or the movie being "not worth the money" but the reality is people are just cheap, impatient assholes who want everything now and for free and you obviously thought the movie was worth something if you wanted to watch it that badly so why not just go down to the video store and rent it? What's that? Because you can't be bothered? Or you don't want to have to wait until it comes out on dvd? See? Impatient and cheap but now add lazy to the mix.
People blame all sorts of shit for this but the real truth is if you want to know who is to blame, go look in a mirror.
I buy movies that I really like because I think if someone makes an awesome enough movie they deserve to get paid for it.
Yeah, the bad movies definitely don't deserve to get paid.
+1 for having morals, right guys?
It's very simple to me - that so much is pirated means that the balance of power is currently in the hands of the consumer.
Film studios essentially refuse to recognise this and choose to fight it rather than embracing new models of business - e.g., more streaming and download options, which are currently essentially non-existent for TV shows and the like, along with a globalised approach (BR's and DVD's are at the forefront of pricing regionalisation).
It's hard to sympathise with companies that take on little guys when they don't offer any flexibility. They have a right to choose the way they do business - however it's pretty clear their current methods are unreasonable.
People blame all sorts of shit for this but the real truth is if you want to know who is to blame, go look in a mirror.
Pretty sure the last time I looked in the mirror all I saw was me, just me.
Fairly sure I didn't see some archaic mega business that refused to accept its business model is failing given modern delivery methods and current consumer awareness.
The customer is always right, after all!
No, just no....
"The customer has rights"
Lets be clear on what is correct shall we?.
Just to put things into perspective, i've probably nearly spent as much on videogames and music and video's as i have on cars.
I'll admit though i still haven't paid for every single thing i've ever watched. Be it recorded from tv or a series lent from a friend on recommendation, or any other means, i'm still i'm more than in the green with the whole entertainment industry.
There's no chance i'd spend more than I do. Lets put it that way. I'd just rewatch stuff or replay stuff. But i would just miss out if there wasn't an alternative.
Unless they made it more accessible and free. And some places do. That's why my steam account has so much money spent on it. Maybe they should look at that and realise that i, like many other customers, decide on what we buy because of the form it's distributed in and a realistic price.
Edit: just did some quick sums. I've spent more on my entertainment items than on my transport. By a good margin. Looking at my dvd box sets, PS1, PS2, 360, steam games and CD collection, i can already see that there's over 12k worth of stuff there. Considering i'm 25 and most of my life has been school and university. That's not bad for someone in the pirate generation.
People still pirate stuff in this day and age? Stranger things have happened I guess.
DM, welcome to greedy CEO's and people who don't understand today's technology and that there are now ways to entice people to buy their products. If everyone did what Gabe Newell said and actually make a product worthwhile then people will go and buy it.
GWOT ahoy.
You didn't actually say it, but I' pretty sure I know what you were alluding to and is more often than not just an age old adage/justification proffered by guilty parties. Stealing a car and then justifying it by saying the car is no good, make a better one to the manufacturer? .... :)
I'd be dirty too if millions of people came into my shop at night and stole my products due to the relative ease of the task comparatively while it's night (click download etc).
Doesn't the the trailer and other stuff (word of mouth) give you enough insight as to whether or not the movie is of high quality according to you or not - this is your 'shareware' version? IMO these companies are entitled to do what they want - they outlay huge moneys and making a movie is a massive project and inevitably they are doing everybody a huge favour by providing it for their entertainment. Their profits and methods are really their own business and if people want to change something I'd imagine banding together and using your feet and stop pirating might be effective perhaps?
Maybe people have been overexposed and or desensitised and movies just aren't that titillating to them anymore or something. I rarely go to the/watch movies these days, but when I do it's a far greater experience for doing as such. *cue Jay and Silent Bob monologue/s*
It's possible those warnings on legit copies will find their way into the hands of parents and/or older people with more disposable moneys and responsibilities who are less inclined to break the law/let their kids break the law and share their concerns with others.
Everybody despises robbers on the news right - how is downloading something illegally any different to using methods that lack violence to gain entry to Harvey Norman and walking out with a copy? This hypocrisy will only go so far!!? :)
Their profits and methods are really their own business and if people want to change something I'd imagine banding together and using your feet and stop pirating might be effective perhaps?
I don't even...
It's possible those warnings on legit copies will find their way into the hands of parents and/or older people with more disposable moneys and responsibilities who are less inclined to break the law/let their kids break the law and share their concerns with others.
wow
meanwhile, what about the vast majority of people who don't give a shit about what you just said, and want to watch the content they paid for when they put the disk in - not a bunch of shit anti-piracy ads when they already DIDN'T pirate the movie, plus other crap they don't want to watch first either?
surely the same do-gooding meeksheep you're describing would happily opt-in to watch these ads, and then those that did the right thing and paid for the movie don't have to wait for them before getting to the part they actually handed over their money for
Hah, arrr! Like it is anything new. I want it now, Mummy! Same goes for theatres, right? You remind me of people that speed - those 15 seconds would want to be worth it. :)
Hah, I almost missed that - you should go have a coffee with infi! :) Somehow I don't think it's the people in this world that do the right thing that you have to watch out for. Haven't you heard? Trying to be decent is the new hip. :)
Consanguinity ("blood relation", from the Latin consanguinitas) refers to the property of being from the same kinship as another person. In that respect, consanguinity is the quality of being descended from the same ancestor as another person.
It's getting a little simple now though isn't it. ;)
and did you really just try and draw a parallel between speeding in a motor vehicle, and not wanting to have to wait for unskippable anti-piracy ads in a product you didn't pirate?
Somehow I don't think it's the people in this world that do the right thing that you have to watch out for.
IMO these companies are entitled to do what they want - they outlay huge moneys and making a movie is a massive project and inevitably they are doing everybody a huge favour by providing it for their entertainment.
Is it a favour though? Or is it selling a product in order to make a profit? I'm pretty sure it's the profit thing.
you obviously thought the movie was worth something if you wanted to watch it that badly so why not just go down to the video store and rent it?
Video stores? wtf? Even ignoring piracy, in the age of the internet shipping little plastic boxes with little plastic discs around the planet is a horse and buggy business model and anyone in that industry that doesn't see the writing on the wall is an idiot.
Now taking piracy into account, just think of all of the money that HBO are leaving on the table because they didn't pay attention when the Oatmeal described the situation perfectly.
who the fuck wants a wall of dvds/blurays in their house. I would rather have all mine on 4-5 hdds that sit nicely on a shelf and take up fuck all room :/
I still buy blu-rays because they offer the best Video/Audio. You can't get the same by downloading your 1080p rips. Yes I realise you can download entire blu rays, but that's 50GB, you really think online is a good alternative? Do you know how long it takes to download 50GB on an average internet connection?
stopped buying movies because of this crap, still can't understand how forcing anti-piracy messages down a paying customers throat is supposed to help their business. If anything it only raises awareness that there is version out there without warnings/trailers that is cheaper, and often available long before the official release. You don't see subway constantly talking about how you could just make your own sandwich but then trying to convince you not to.
... I'll respond to jim's comments last because his reading comprehension and logical application skills seem to be waning...
Is it a favour though? Or is it selling a product in order to make a profit? I'm pretty sure it's the profit thing.
Well, it depends on which side of the coin you are looking at and from I guess, but I'd say both. Movies have been an integral part of civilisation for a very long time and most studios carry a certain 'aura' about them that few other organisations/businesses/companies can rival - theme parks, all that jazz etc etc. They have been an eventful and constant source of happiness and escapism (if that's your thing, it's not mine) among other things, for a lot of people for a lot of years.
I think with the advent of newer delivery mechanisms and abundance of content coupled (ehe) with one click (opening Harvey Norman's doors) access to gigs of easy and free content people have become far too complacent. Is the coffee shop doing you a favour by offerring you hassle free coffee? Of course they are - at grass roots any reputable/competitive establishment that is offering a service or product in exchange for moneys that results in an improvement in your existence is - if they weren't they wouldn't be as/profitable for long, that is for sure.
Favour: 4. a condition of being regarded with approval or good will
we're talking about blueray discs, not theatres and did you really just try and draw a parallel between speeding in a motor vehicle, and not wanting to have to wait for unskippable anti-piracy ads in a product you didn't pirate?
orly then why make them wait for anti-piracy ads?
No, we were talking about 15 second wait times, which seem to occur frequently during the day and was the main concern of your grievance. The parallel I drew is relevant in that it brings into question people's attention spans or lack thereof and perceived self importance, regardless of application.
Nobody is 'making' anybody do anything - as far as I know nobody held a gun to anyone that bought a movie's head - you know what you are shelling out your scrilla for before you do it! There are tried and tested means by which unhappy consumers/customers can show there disapproval and possibly change things, which I also stated.
I already mentioned one of the reasons why I think they are doing it, but that is just IMO and there could be a whole myriad of other reasons. :)
Thermite - re-read my posts, I've been seeing stuff like you posted since before you could count. :p
Avengers breaks box office records, smashing harry potter in opening week sales by like 35m and climbing. Studios claim piracy is ruining them and hurting sales.
... I'll respond to jim's comments last because his reading comprehension and logical application skills seem to be waning...
actually you responded to thermite last but don't let facts stand in the way of projecting your own shortcomings onto others!
we were talking about 15 second wait times, which seem to occur frequently during the day and was the main concern of your grievance.
no, you were attempting to change the context from the specific situation this thread is talking about, to waiting for things in general. your analogy... wasn't an analogy at all because it compared not wanting to wait for an anti-piracy ad in a product you already paid for, to speeding in a motor vehicle.
Nobody is 'making' anybody do anything - as far as I know nobody held a gun to anyone that bought a movie's head - you know what you are shelling out your scrilla for before you do it!
if you buy their product, they make you wait to watch it
the crux of your argument so far jc23:
- people are impatient and they should just wait for anti-piracy ads in a product they didn't pirate, not speak out against them
- people who speak out about them allegedly remind you of people that speed, and whatever negative association you'd like that to imply
- these anti-piracy ads are good because some people are educated by them and will in turn educate others
- making a copy of binary data is the same as stealing a physical item
- because you personally, don't go to the movies that often and don't mind waiting for trailers/ads/etc, no-one else should mind waiting for unskippable anti-piracy ads in a product they didn't pirate
all of these points have been answered in this thread, yet you sit there still trying to defend the speeding analogy and argue that people have the choice not to buy the product when... nobody is even saying they don't have the choice in the first place
how is downloading something illegally any different to using methods that lack violence to gain entry to Harvey Norman and walking out with a copy?
ooh, I know this one!
The poor bastards that break into HN's and make off with some loot haven't downloaded anything at all but still have to sit through 20 seconds of unskippable piracy warnings?
Haha. Also, aarrr! It's not broken at all, though your failure to acknowledge that at the end of the day semantics aside, you end up with an installed product that you stole which renders you nothing more than an opportunistic hypocritical common criminal, and you simply don't like it being pointed out. Jim, double rolls eyes and a head shake, cling awn yo! Lot's of deer in the spotlight action going on uih. Not my concern, glhf. :)
Doesn't matter how pompously you argue against it with worthless analogies Jc, fact is that forcing people to watch warnings before they are allowed to watch the media they have legally paid for is always going to discourage them from paying for it in future (especially if the alternative, cheaper option does not force them to).
Also, consider pirating some e-books that teach English language writing skills. I mean seriously:
Haha. Also, aarrr! It's not broken at all, though your failure to acknowledge that at the end of the day semantics aside, you end up with an installed product that you stole which renders you nothing more than an opportunistic hypocritical common criminal, and you simply don't like it being pointed out. Jim, double rolls eyes and a head shake, cling awn yo! Lot's of deer in the spotlight action going on uih. Not my concern, glhf. :)
Gabe Newell said it best "Piracy is a service problem" and making the service 'worse' isn't going to help. It was in the news all throughout 2011 and 2012.
Offer a better service and it will take off. In the case of movies cheaper, maybe cheaper food? No advertising?. In some ways its already being done with "Gold Class" maybe an expansion in that general direction. I go to a local cinema here in Melbourne and I support them, they're pretty cool. I'd also say they offer decent service. Its one of those small independent cinemas.
In other news, certainly seems like the MPAA is a censorship agency.
You know what else would stop piracy? People making a conscious decision to not do it. The justification of 'make a better product and we will do the right thing' only works because these other avenues to obtain exist. For some reason, people tend to get sick of having their stuff stolen - big faceless companies aren't people etc etc. Are Google/Netflix/whatevs not upto scratch yet or something? People seemed to rule out these alternatives quickly Imo. Why don't you ask trog what he thinks about this and people blocking ads on his sites, effectively stealing page views (clearly not a hard copy jim :/)? :)
Are Google/Netflix/whatevs not upto scratch yet or something?
Google/Netflix are rental services, not sales.
Why don't you ask trog what he thinks about this and people blocking ads on his sites, effectively stealing page views (clearly not a hard copy jim :/)? :)
I'm sure trog would tell you that he understands that it's a balance between obtrusiveness and visibility. I'm also sure that trog would understand that if he forced people to watch ads before viewing a page that people would not only vocally complain, but would also find a way of viewing pages without being forced to watch the ad. Advertisers on YouTube and other services have obviously understood this by making ads at the starts of videos skippable.
Once again you seem to be going on empty rants about things without showing any comprehension of what people are actually expressing displeasure about in the thread.
Yeah, there is a portion at the start that can't be skipped usually though.
So a 1080p HD copy of the movie available for individual source file in *best* format with minimal bloat download with no DRM/license restrictions/expiry/device locking at a reasonable fee that is reasonably close to the theatrical release date of the film is the solution to all this then? :)
So a 1080p HD copy of the movie available for individual source file in *best* format with minimal bloat download with no DRM/license restrictions/expiry/device locking at a reasonable fee that is reasonably close to the theatrical release date of the film is the solution to all this then? :)
That depends if they can work out how to do it profitably, and considering how archaically they seem to operate I don't know how likely that is. Obviously the companies need to still make money, as I said with the AusGamers example it needs to be a balance between profitability and convenience. They should most definitely embrace new technology instead of desperately trying to hold it back and control it. One thing is for sure though, forcing people to watching warnings about piracy on legitimately bought copies of media is a terrible idea.
And one other major thing the mega-evil media companies need to understand is that a 13 year old pirating a copy of their movie is almost never a lost sale, I'd be willing to bet that, at the very least, more than half of people pirating things would not be able to afford/willing to buy the product otherwise, and in those cases it's more like free advertising through word of mouth and future IP sales.
One thing is for sure though, forcing people to watching warnings about piracy on legitimately bought copies of media is a terrible idea.
Agreed, trying to accurately depict another perspective cost me 180 seconds though!! :P
Web-site advertising is fine - obtrusive web advertising is not however. My own personal jury is out on 'endured' advertising also. This site specifically -> Vigilink is an evil plague and completely undermines the internet IMO. Addled, not so bad. Unobtrusive huge media ads at top of page - great. Also, I don't install ad-blockers.
Double also, here is a picture of the Optical goodness under Grey Street/South Brisbane Fibre replacement telephony exchange I took before I got chased away by the Coke swilling workers this morning. :)
So a 1080p HD copy of the movie available for individual source file in *best* format with minimal bloat download with no DRM/license restrictions/expiry/device locking at a reasonable fee that is reasonably close to the theatrical release date of the film is the solution to all this then? :)
even if they did retain all customers, would anyone pay attention more than the skipable ads? or would they think that even though they see these other ads perhaps they might pay attention more because they cant skip it.
WWW
