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Philip Seymour Hoffman Found Dead
Tanaka Khan
Brisbane, Queensland
5428 posts
Story

Wow. He played such a wide range of characters too, such a shame.

Aparently had a needle still in his arm.
07:17am 03/02/14 Permalink
system
Internet
--
07:17am 03/02/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
37348 posts
bummmer, 23 years clean :(
07:29am 03/02/14 Permalink
d0mino
Melbourne, Victoria
5371 posts
*'s a hellava drug
08:09am 03/02/14 Permalink
Saint
Cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
3317 posts
Holy s***! He was an awesome actor too.
08:20am 03/02/14 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
37350 posts
the scenes he did in happiness have haunted me for years.
08:23am 03/02/14 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
19181 posts
could only be heroin
08:39am 03/02/14 Permalink
groganus
Brisbane, Queensland
2818 posts
the scenes he did in happiness have haunted me for years.


This!

I'd seen him in a few things over the years and thought he was good, but it wasn't till I saw his role in Happiness that i realised what a GREAT actor he was.

Also further to this, he was typically always in a supporting role, he never went for that center spot light and he complimented who ever he was next to so well.
08:55am 03/02/14 Permalink
Reverend Evil™
Wynnum, Queensland
21726 posts
the scenes he did in happiness have haunted me for years

The scene that will be haunting me was when he was f*****g Marisa Tomei in Before the Devil Knows You're Dead. That was truly terrifying.
09:19am 03/02/14 Permalink
Twisted
Brisbane, Queensland
12009 posts

F*****' junkie.
09:49am 03/02/14 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
17882 posts
he never went for that center spot light and he complimented who ever he was next to so well.


when he did have the center spot light (capote), he won an Oscar for it.
10:24am 03/02/14 Permalink
cherocha
Queensland
434 posts
F*****g H! The man was brilliant. It's really saddening that we're never going to see him perform again...
11:10am 03/02/14 Permalink
Eds
Brisbane, Queensland
9990 posts
This is my favorite scene

11:25am 03/02/14 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
8335 posts
Unemployed, die of drugs? F*****' derro.
Famous actor, overdose? A huge tragedy.
11:37am 03/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
967 posts
nice scene Eds

Should it be about how he died or about how he lived?
11:55am 03/02/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10969 posts
Unemployed, die of drugs? F*****' derro.
Famous actor, overdose? A huge tragedy.


Accidental overdose ?
Drug Prohibition means every shot is a roll of the dice.
If he was certain of the strength would he still have O/D'd ?

I wonder what he was trying to get away from ?
...every Junkies like a setting sun.

Before the Devil Knows You're Dead = great movie
12:41pm 03/02/14 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14699 posts
Unemployed, die of drugs? F*****' derro.

Not to the people who knew the deceased, only to those outside the person's monkeysphere.
Famous actor, overdose? A huge tragedy.

The better the actor, the more the public feel they knew them and empathised with them. When they die, people react as though its a real person.
01:26pm 03/02/14 Permalink
Audi
Perth, Western Australia
553 posts
He wasn't a real person?
04:13pm 03/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
979 posts
Audi. Come on now. The people on TV are not real people you know.
05:57pm 03/02/14 Permalink
kg
Brisbane, Queensland
83 posts
06:03pm 03/02/14 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
10894 posts
Unemployed, die of drugs? F*****' derro.
Famous actor, overdose? A huge tragedy

That's so Raven
but I agree
06:37pm 03/02/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
21141 posts
chasing the dragon
06:41pm 03/02/14 Permalink
d0mino
Melbourne, Victoria
5374 posts
... more like Phillip See-more Heroin. AMIRITE?
07:33pm 03/02/14 Permalink
bobby
Sydney, New South Wales
28 posts
I thought it was philacio semen hoffman
08:38pm 03/02/14 Permalink
cherocha
Queensland
435 posts
Unemployed, die of drugs? F*****' derro.
Famous actor, overdose? A huge tragedy.

Post up details of a "nobody" dying of an OD, tell their story, and if it's a good story, people who aren't f***heads are going to have some empathy. Likewise, most people are going to give a s*** about the premature death of an actor who has been garnering their admiration with brilliant performances for over a decade.

Every time there's a celebrity death and a thread made about it, there's always the obligatory platitudes being posted by people who think they're pointing out a double standard.
09:18pm 03/02/14 Permalink
Mosfx
Gold Coast, Queensland
1858 posts

Hunger Games will go on

A source close to production told the Wall Street Journal only 'modest rewrites' will be required and his untimely death will not affect the release date for Mockingjay Part 1 in November or its follow up a year later.
While there is one significant scene left to film for Part 2 - about seven days total - another character is expected to take the place of Heavensbee in the crucial part of the movie.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2551041/Philip-Seymour-Hoffmans-Hunger-Games-coworkers-including-Jennifer-Lawrence-Liam-Hemsworth-release-statement.html#ixzz2sIWg6m97
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


08:43am 04/02/14 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6494 posts
I got no sympathy. Live by the sword, dye by the sword.

You have this poor young lad, fit as a fiddle, dropping dead after completing a Tri. Yet they make this junkie out to be some kinda hero cause he was on a few movies.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/young-triathlete-dies-after-crossing-finish-line-20140204-31y0p.html
01:33pm 04/02/14 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
6220 posts
Really? This kid did f*** all in life. He completed school then went on to run a race and died. This guy made some kickass movies and acted amazingly well. He entertained people for many years. That's why people are sad he's dead, they see what he has contributed and are saddened by the fact they will not see any more movies with his great acting.

So tell me again why a f*****g 21 year old deserves to be a hero vs this guy? A hero because he was nice? Sure ok I want to be a hero too.
01:42pm 04/02/14 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
14703 posts
He wasn't a real person?

Logic fail Audi, I said the react as though he was a real person.

The woes of your random drug overdose victim are discarded according to monkeysphere (more properly Dunbar's number) because people don't regard them as real people. Primates apparently only fit so much give a s*** about other primates into our minds.
01:45pm 04/02/14 Permalink
Jim
UK
13467 posts
A hero because he was nice? Sure ok I want to be a hero too.

you'd have to be nice first though
01:45pm 04/02/14 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
21421 posts
I also don't get why people feel the need to compare tragedies when stuff like this happens. "My dead guy is much more tragic than your dead guy, I win!" Can't we just agree that it sucks that random 21 year old guy died and it sucks that Phillip Seymour Hoffman died and both are equally tragic. Difference being, I didn't know 21 year old triathlon guy and he wasn't in any of my favourite movies, so I miss Phillip Seymour Hoffman more.
01:47pm 04/02/14 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
19195 posts
triathlons should be banned

yeah a guy i went to uni with passed away early last year at the gym, he was just standing there and collapsed and was dead - brain aneurysm

he was super fit, pretty crazy s***
02:03pm 04/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
993 posts
oh your dead guy soooooooo wins khel
02:04pm 04/02/14 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4738 posts
My brother in laws close friend died from a punch to the head when he was 16. he got a lot more sympathy than that 21 year old.

Matthew Stanley

parents were/are quite wealthy, So perhaps its actually related to how much money you have. Lots of people had the sads when steve jobs died.


02:48pm 04/02/14 Permalink
DM
Gold Coast, Queensland
5185 posts
Everyone is raving about how fantastic this guy was but every movie I have ever seen him in just came off as creepy and sleazy to me so I've never liked him.
03:03pm 04/02/14 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
21152 posts
NYPD are on an urgent mission to find who the heroin dealer was for Hoffman. This heroin dealer is so much more heinous than every other heroin dealer apparently.
03:18pm 04/02/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10977 posts
Russel Brandt offers some insight into Addiction:

In spite of his life seeming superficially great, in spite of all the praise and accolades, in spite of all the loving friends and family, there is a predominant voice in the mind of an addict that supersedes all reason and that voice wants you dead. This voice is the unrelenting echo of an unfulfillable void.

Addiction is a mental illness around which there is a great deal of confusion, which is hugely exacerbated by the laws that criminalise drug addicts.
If drugs are illegal people who use drugs are criminals. We have set our moral compass on this erroneous premise, and we have strayed so far off course that the landscape we now inhabit provides us with no solutions and greatly increases the problem.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/06/russell-brand-philip-seymour-hoffman-drug-laws


09:12pm 07/02/14 Permalink
Reverend Evil™
Wynnum, Queensland
21741 posts
Yeah. It's hilarious they're making a huge effort to track the dealer down but for anyone else they wouldn't give a f***.
09:22pm 07/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1027 posts
Pft i dont believe in Addiction.

If i had to put it down to something and id really not want to but if i had to id say its more to the fact the guy was an artist and there is something in the artist that has to channel not stuff and in a world of stuff that means ur brain / mind doesnt tick like all the other tocks and so the bridge obviously is drugs and that causes issues because of stupids

any way that would be one way id look at it
11:43pm 07/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15094 posts


Pft i dont believe in Addiction.



Because addiction is a faith... .. what.
12:33am 08/02/14 Permalink
Crakaveli
6449 posts
doesn't believe in addiction... lol.

http://i.imgur.com/QmiZw1f.jpg
01:09am 08/02/14 Permalink
Crakaveli
6449 posts
doesn't believe in addiction... lol.

http://i.imgur.com/QmiZw1f.jpg
01:09am 08/02/14 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
901 posts
You are supposed to depress the plunger halfway to test the mix and gear strength silly! Ooops, now you're dead, doh. :)
02:19am 08/02/14 Permalink
baz
Victoria
458 posts
Pft i dont believe in Addiction.

If i had to put it down to something and id really not want to but if i had to id say its more to the fact the guy was an artist and there is something in the artist that has to channel not stuff and in a world of stuff that means ur brain / mind doesnt tick like all the other tocks and so the bridge obviously is drugs and that causes issues because of stupids

any way that would be one way id look at it


What this post has gained with the controversial opening statement is almost completely lost by the rest of the post.

Sorry bookz, has to be done.

09:14am 08/02/14 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
1236 posts
Pft i dont believe in Addiction.


Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/vp/image/1367/96/1367965631852.jpg

He was probably not a drug addict, but a fiend. a fiend craves the drugs to escape. Heaps of people are functional members of society but due to our horrible laws are forced into the fringes. This is not a place where a large part of society should be.
10:40am 08/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1030 posts
Yes gentlemen i can tell you all believe you are addicted to drugs from your balanced and considered rebuttals of my supposition

That said yes physical addiction is a thing. Of course. Eat a bunch of sugar every day and suddenly dont eat sugar and your body will be wtf? You cant out think a physical body reaction. Well not easily.

So i was referring to the whole mental side of addiction. Well the whole mental side of addiction as we have now in modern diagnosis / treatment etc. Which i believe is bulls*** crutch crap. Sure the person might really really want it but unless its a case where there might be some severe physical symptoms (and im not just talking about the sweats here) if you are not weak willed you can just be "no". "no i don't need it".

Like people who smoke. Its meant to be this massive addictive habit right? "As addictive as smack" you hear. Help lines 24 hours a day to fight "the addiction" and TV adverts and all that. Heavy smokers who go an hour or two and start to "crave" a smoke. Have to have it. Get all twitchy. Angry. Short temper and all that because they need a smoke. F*** off. Just do something else. Stop being a b**** and letting your lazy f*** mind whine about the craving. Go for a walk.

Ive no idea where the whole mental side of addictive thing came from. Same place as most 1st world problems probably. Some kind of too soft approach on f*** ups of life. "Oh yeah you have no job and your wife and kids left you and you just s*** your pants because you are mentally addicted to drugs. You poor thing". LOL

How about you just admit your a lazy s*** who would rather float around lala land high as a kite because its fun and when you come down you get all teary and sad because you are a major f*** up and because someone thought it would be a good idea to enable you thru the whole crutch of "oh they cant help it they are addicted".

And yes you dont see successful high functioning drug users - like professional types who hold down jobs like top flight QC lawyers* - complaining about their terrible addictions and boohoo how bad drugs are. Thats just the losers who failed at life and now want something to blame that isnt them. Oh it was the drugs! I couldnt help myself it was the drugs! I was "addicted". You would never even know some people were taking drugs.

*criminal defence lawyer, Shane Herbert (Queensland 1970s-1990s) He was one of Queensland’s youngest appointed QCs and acknowledged as leader of the bar prior to his death in 1995 at the age of 40. Following his death, criticisms of Herbert appeared in the media focusing on allegations of drug use that affected his court performances and allegations of a cover-up of the cause of his death. Fair Trial presents testimony of people who knew Shane Herbert to highlight the quotidian or modest elements of his story, to bring otherwise silent voices into the debate. This functions as a counterweight to the controversy, and makes private a figure who had become highly contested in the public domain. He is revealed as a middle-class boy from the Brisbane suburbs and the first person in his family to gain a tertiary education. He developed a liberal, individualist ethos that swept him along with the popular libertarian and leftist movements of the 1970s but distanced him once the times changed and he continued to defend unpopular causes.
http://espace.library.uq.edu.au/view/UQ:260747
12:02pm 08/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15095 posts
Holy s*** Ruleofbookz, you are not some kind of wonder thinker genius extraordinaire.

You prat on about Physical addiction to be real because it is easily measured. However the moment it gets hard to measure you call it Bulls***. You think you know better than hundreds of thousands of Psychologists and psychiatrists who have spent many, many years of their life specialising in this?

So according to you, mental processes are not affected by physical products. So you say people cannot possibly be mentally addicted to a physical compound because it doesn't have a strong physiological effect on the body, that mental processes caused by the drug are irrelevant.

That is just plain stupid and ignorant of the facts.



last edited by Tollaz0r! at 13:14:34 08/Feb/14
01:11pm 08/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1032 posts
Oh toll. Why get so indignant whenever someone just mentions something you feel to not be "true"? Why not ask nice 1st for info then get cranky? I never said i was some kind of wonder thinker genius extraordinaire. We are just having a nice conversation. Lets not get emotional. It wont kill you.

Yes. Psychologists and psychiatrists can be full of crap. Im not a fan of the medical model of diagnosis and treatment for some mental "aliments". I prefer a Psychoanalysis approach. There should be no surprises to that right? That is a rejection, to some extent, of Scientific Positivism. Or maybe it just ive had oo many drugs to think science is anywhere close to being the exclusive holder and distributor of all knowledge?

no. i say people are just lazy looking for an easy crutch to blame for their poor behavior and lack of responsibility. The medical model of diagnosis and treatment for some mental "aliments" gives them that crutch.

circle logic of something is addictive so its bad for you. Someone has it and they end up f*****g up their life. They point at the addictive thing as bad and so it must of f***ed up their life. Because its addictive. Nice neat little circle. No one needs to be responsible of their own actions and choices you get out of jail free.

Its not addictive. You just chose to do s*** loads neglecting stuff you should not of. So your life becomes suck and you end up in medical care or a ward. Everyone says "well obviously it was this bad thing: it was addictive". You say "whew i thought i was just a f*** up".

Nah. not buying it.

EDIT: thought i should put this in so you know I know what im on about: psychiatrist vs psychologist vs psychoanalyst
01:48pm 08/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15096 posts
You state it is a fact when in fact it is opinion that flies in the face of a large body of science and evidence.

At no point do medical professionals say that being addicted to a substance abolishes people of responsibility. The choice of a person to begin or stop using a drug does not change the fact that people can get mentally addicted to substances, a real addiction just like a physiological dependency, a mental dependency.

To say that drugs do not compel people to have a mental dependency on that drug is absurd.
02:05pm 08/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15097 posts
youtube junk doesn't support your argument in scientific and medical arenas. Pubmed does.
02:16pm 08/02/14 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
902 posts
bookz - anhedonia.
03:09pm 08/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1033 posts
So i state "i dont believe in Addiction" as fact? And? It is a fact its my opinion.

Medical people can say whatever they like about the mind. Doesn't make it true. Studying patterns of behavior and discerning issues affecting populations etc is all well and good. But like statistics only work on large populations and become meaningless at an individual level most of the "medicine for the mind" stuff seems to as well.

And yes people have s*** to go thru and need coping mechanisms for when they cant cope. But its because society cant just say: oh you cant cope your life is s*** ok here take this and f*** off to a nice place in your head that we need artificial things like "addiction".

But thats not exactly so because pharma has got little blue pills for that but if you "self supply" its a big no no.

Nothing you have said toll shows a case for how you think addiction is real and not just a crutch. Nothing you have said has shown that we need this strange thing called "Addiction" and that it is a good thing to have created it and allow it to be a "thing". All it seems to do is enable sillyness.
04:06pm 08/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15098 posts
The Disease of Addiction: Origins, Treatment, and Recovery


Addiction can be defined as the continued use of mood-altering addicting substances or behaviors (e.g., gambling, compulsive sexual behaviors) despite adverse consequences


That is a good definition of addiction. Since there are innumerable cases of people doing this exact thing it would be pretty hard to say addiction doesn't exist.

It doesn't have to be drugs, it has nothing to do with 'Big Pharma'.
04:36pm 08/02/14 Permalink
baz
Victoria
459 posts
Yes gentlemen i can tell you all believe you are addicted to drugs from your balanced and considered rebuttals of my supposition



I just thought your opening statement was a good start for the addiction subject, but the rest of the post was really sloppy.
Needed more clarity.


any way that would be one way id look at it


I did notice this btw.

I believe you are correct about needing mental strength to overcome addiction but addicts need access to personal awareness techniques and education that will give them the direction that many people have never learnt, even the 'non addicts'.

Telling them to have a cup of concrete in most cases wont work. That actually said more about you than a drug addict. You would try to destroy someones self esteem to feel better about yourself. Maybe you should move away from Fitzroy if the swarms of junkies are affecting you so much. I wouldn't live in a s***hole like that in a pink fit lol.
09:23pm 08/02/14 Permalink
cherocha
Queensland
440 posts
Addiction is the continued repetition of a behavior despite adverse consequences, or a neurological impairment leading to such behaviors.

Addictions can include, but are not limited to, drug abuse, exercise addiction, food addiction, sexual addiction, computer addiction and gambling. Classic hallmarks of addiction include impaired control over substances or behavior, preoccupation with substance or behavior, continued use despite consequences, and denial. Habits and patterns associated with addiction are typically characterized by immediate gratification (short-term reward), coupled with delayed deleterious effects (long-term costs).

I don't get the part where addiction is somehow not a real thing.
10:00pm 08/02/14 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
7157 posts
I think RuleofBooKz is addicted to being wrong.
10:17pm 08/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15102 posts
Mantorok wins the thread.
10:22pm 08/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1034 posts
sometimes being wrong is the only right thing

in the same way that atheists do not believe in god i do not believe in addiction

its a made up construct that does more harm than good. Its a mask of the problem that becomes the problem because we dont want hard issues. Its used as a crutch for those who do believe in it (both ways) and is pushed onto the most vulnerable and needy.

Its systemic of a culture that just doesn't care what the problem is because its easier to just rubber stamp it and push it along so it doesn't have to be dealt with. Classic label of victim so as to move everything along. Nothing to see here. Return to your homes.
11:24pm 08/02/14 Permalink
baz
Victoria
460 posts
Thats better, why didnt you just say that in the first place.
11:44pm 08/02/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10978 posts
You have an arrogant view of Addiction.
You should be very careful because your outright denial of it might make you vulnerable to being inside an addiction yet refusing to admit it.

You know those kinds of people, right ?

11:49pm 08/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15105 posts
You can't deny it exists because it does:

Just because you want to call it something else doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It sounds like what you really are talking about is the treatment for addiction. You want to focus on the underlying causes of the addiction. Not to say, here is a bill that stops addictive behaviour. Good news, that is how the bulk of medical practitioners view it too, to treat the underlying reason for the addiction.

11:40am 09/02/14 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
904 posts
12:05pm 09/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1036 posts
You can't deny it exists because it does:

Just because you want to call it something else doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Try telling atheists that.
12:15pm 09/02/14 Permalink
cherocha
Queensland
441 posts
Atheists reject belief in God for lack of evidence.

Whether or not addiction should be labelled as a "disease" is one argument, but whether or not it actually exists? No. I gather your opposition to the word is because of enabling etc, but the reality is that there are millions of very observable examples of addiction, as the word is defined. Do you also discount studies showing genetic predisposition?

Unfortunately, some people just don't have the mental fortitude that you purport to have, and so whether or not they lapse into repetitious patterns of destructive behavior is less of a choice, and more of a foregone conclusion ie. addiction.
01:16pm 09/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15110 posts

You can't deny it exists because it does:

Just because you want to call it something else doesn't mean it doesn't exist.



Try telling atheists that.


Are you seriously comparing the existence of addiction as defined by the word with the hundreds of thousands observable examples to that of a theological belief which by definition has no proof?
If so, then you have a problem with logical reasoning.
01:41pm 09/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1037 posts
You are simply taking the role that religious types would take to show "proof" that god exists.

Millions of observable cases of people behaving religiously because they believe in god. How is that any different to millions of observable cases of people behaving as addicts because they believe in addiction?

You are pointing out a behavior that has had a label attached to it. The label is artificial. Like all labels. The label is "addiction". Like the label "god".

Genetic predisposition seems interesting. Ive not looked in to so much. It seems reasonable in how it is linked to "human nature" allowing it is just one factor among many that determines an individuals actions and behaviors.
02:41pm 09/02/14 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
10980 posts
Religion isnt substance abuse.

You dont get much closer to God than a Priest and I dont see Priests selling their bodies to get more Jesus Juice. Nobody ODs on prayer.

Have you ever met an Alcoholic ?
a Heroin Addict ?
when they are Jonesin all of their thoughts and actions are directed towards getting more of their Drug. Sure it may be self-inflicted but nobody ever sets out to become an Addict/Junkie.

Look at those Meth pictures you see around the net.
No sane person would ever choose something like that.


03:29pm 09/02/14 Permalink
Alan Partridge
Brisbane, Queensland
2584 posts
03:30pm 09/02/14 Permalink
baz
Victoria
461 posts
I like where bookz is heading with this.
04:04pm 09/02/14 Permalink
cherocha
Queensland
442 posts
You are simply taking the role that religious types would take to show "proof" that god exists.

Millions of observable cases of people behaving religiously because they believe in god. How is that any different to millions of observable cases of people behaving as addicts because they believe in addiction?

You are pointing out a behavior that has had a label attached to it. The label is artificial. Like all labels. The label is "addiction". Like the label "god".

Genetic predisposition seems interesting. Ive not looked in to so much. It seems reasonable in how it is linked to "human nature" allowing it is just one factor among many that determines an individuals actions and behaviors.

In terms of moderate christianity, most theists don't invest in belief whilst knowing that it will likely lead them to jail, death, or sucking d*** in a truck stop toilet. Most theists aren't driven to desperate criminal acts in order to feed their need for Jesus.

Do you honestly believe people are being enabled by simple belief in addiction? Many addicts would deny that they are addicts. It has zero to do with belief, at least in most cases. It isn't a label, it's a term to describe something very real, and very physical.

Comparing a junkie strung near dead from withdrawals over the porcelain wheel, to some douche attending a Sunday service, is just f*****g asinine, and about as far as you could get from rationalising your position in any sort of compelling or reasonable way.
05:47pm 09/02/14 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
905 posts
What is the problem here? Aaddiction is a physical rewiring of the reward pathways in the brain - the neurotransmitters involved, serotonin and dopamine are released everytime someone gets a hit/experience and a new hit/experience is required soon after (relative time wise) because they retract somewhat. Fact? :)
07:03pm 09/02/14 Permalink
baz
Victoria
462 posts
I love when a super brain rocks up with a super irrelevant point that sounds all medical n s***.
No offense Jc but you might wanna up the depth meter here.

We could talk about molecules n s*** next if you want.


Many addicts would deny that they are addicts.

I dont think this is true. Most addicts know full well they are addicts. Its pretty hard to delude oneself about addiction, well drug addiction anyway.

It has zero to do with belief,

Some addicts simply believe they are f***ed in the head and cannot help themselves.

at least in most cases. It isn't a label.

Addicts are subject to a lot of labeling actually.
07:13pm 09/02/14 Permalink
cherocha
Queensland
443 posts
*Many. They wouldn't call admission the first step, if denial didn't play a part.

*The underlying causes do not negate the term being applicable, which is what we are arguing about.

*Labels are generally used to describe something specific. Addiction can apply to anybody, for a variety of reasons.
07:40pm 09/02/14 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
906 posts
I love when a super brain rocks up with a super irrelevant point that sounds all medical n s***.
No offense Jc but you might wanna up the depth meter here.

We could talk about molecules n s*** next if you want.




baz, I'd say it's actually the most relevant part of what's being discussed here - its basically the effect and semi-cause of addiction!! :) p.s. feel free to discuss molecules you deem it relevant in a thread about addiction. <-- super brain.


Here

Certain neural structures, called the reward system, are critically involved in mediating the effects of reinforcement. A reward is an appetitive stimulus given to a human or some other animal to alter its behavior. Rewards typically serve as reinforcers. A reinforcer is something that, when presented after a behavior, causes the probability of that behavior's occurrence to increase. Note that, just because something is labelled as a reward, it does not necessarily imply that it is a reinforcer. A reward can be defined as reinforcer only if its delivery increases the probability of a behavior
08:13pm 09/02/14 Permalink
baz
Victoria
463 posts
*Many. They wouldn't call admission the first step, if denial didn't play a part.


Linguistics. Its probably more accurate to call it surrender or court order than admission.

*The underlying causes do not negate the term being applicable, which is what we are arguing about.
*Labels are generally used to describe something specific. Addiction can apply to anybody, for a variety of reasons.




I didn't quite follow this?
08:29pm 09/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1040 posts
ah i guess i have to respond here. Its complicated in its obviousness so maybe because its too long we will just let it go for now.
05:09pm 10/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15119 posts

Its complicated in its obviousness


"detailed programmatic specificity"
05:19pm 10/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1042 posts
05:44pm 10/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15120 posts
Its OK to be wrong Rulez. I don't think I've ever seen you admit being wrong on these forums, evening against overwhelming evidence.
06:46pm 10/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1045 posts
Its OK to be wrong Rulez. I don't think I've ever seen you admit being wrong on these forums, evening against overwhelming evidence.


no silly it is a long post and the only stupid people are those that dont learn from the past and adapt. Thank you for asking for the post even if it was in a "im goingto challenge you" manner. Now pete cant QQ about long posts because im responding to you directly..

1st up: word. Language. You could definitely say a facet of this discussion is that I do not like the word addiction - the label. But just substituting the word for another word is not the solution. Because then we would be back to:

"Just because you want to call it something else doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

To cure this would require the dis belief of addiction as a thing - a behavior or way of being or acting or whatever. A rooting out of the idea that addiction exists as a behavior and in the mental architecture. To go back that far would amount to the same as, again i use the religious metaphor, atheists trying to rid the world of the word label "god" because they dont believe in "god".

So no im not trying to rid the world of the word label "addiction". Much like atheists don't believe in god but acknowledge there is a word "god" - I just do not believe in it. I do not believe in addiction.

Then knowing that about labels and words if follows one can not use the definition of something to prove that it exists. It’s like asking someone to describe a circle to you and they say "it’s circular".

If we stopped using the word, and substitute words, and looked at each case by case, at what the root causes were, and went from there. Nothing is addictive. Addiction does not exist. The drugs are not addictive. The person just doesn't care about f*****g up "life". The gambling isn't "addictive" they just find it fun and have nothing else fun in their lives etc etc. If we fixed all that, because as a society and community we actually care, we could get somewhere. But that won’t be like to happen anytime soon.

As for moderate: as in comparing the “I do not believe in addiction” to atheists logic we are not talking moderate. You would be aware that to be labeled "addiction" it is in extreme. Extreme theists certainly do invest in belief whilst knowing that it will likely lead them to making sacrifices (no sex!), discomfort and perhaps even jail or death. Historically being religious certainly could lead to your death. Witch trials. Christians in Rome. Pagans in Alexandria.

Suddenly comparing a junkie strung near dead from withdrawals over the porcelain wheel, to some douche willingly walking into the Coliseum to be torn apart by ferocious hungry lions because of their unwavering belief in god suddenly isn’t so asinine. OR a guy with a detonating vest.

These "simple beliefs" people get? They are the most powerful things in the world. If people believe in addiction, if others believe them to be addicts and label / enable them. Yes people are being enabled simply by the belief that addiction is real.

Lets look:
Dr: So you are taking drugs and are f***ed up? Why?
Patient: Because im addicted?
Dr: No addiction isnt real. So why are you really taking drugs?
Pa: Because they are addictive... (stern look from Dr) I dont know?
Dr: Here is a whole s*** tone of drugs go nuts have as much as you like you get a whole bucket full for 5 bucks and medicare covers it.
Pa: ?????????????
Dr: But id like to know why you will take these when you haven't a job. And why spend the next day taking these when your wife hates you and your kids hate you. And why take them when your health is so low you are in danger?
Pa: ??????????
Dr: Well id like to talk about all that stuff and actually provide real meaningful solutions not just flimflam talk and bulls*** solutions that don’t go anywhere - like the system is now.
Pa: Yeah right!
Dr: No here is my magic wand and now here is a job you actually are interested in and like a lot and rewards you well (i don't just mean money) so you have a reason. Here is an education you are now an intelligent person. Here are some wonderful ethics and morals and wisdom so you have insight. Here is people who want to spend time with you, family that are not disappointed in you or who you are disappointed in so you have a reason. Here is a great fulfilling life - just here - you just put the bucket of drugs down and take it because here it is and it is a reason.

But of course that is just a magical fairytale and isn't real. We can’t do that for people. No Dr has that power. But that doesn't make addiction real. And even if a Dr could grant it and the person still decided to take the bucket of drugs and die - that doesn't mean addiction is real. It means the person wanted to die. Or take the bucket of drugs just for LoLs it wasn't because the drugs were addictive it was because of the LoLs etc etc

So what have we learnt? i don't believe in addiction but it seems i do believe in magical fairytales. Thanks for taking the min to read.
08:42pm 10/02/14 Permalink
Jc_23
Brisbane, Queensland
907 posts
Yeah, but, reward pathway altering and stuff. :)
09:33pm 10/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15125 posts
What the f*** is wrong with you?
10:26pm 10/02/14 Permalink
csirac
Brisbane, Queensland
3136 posts
Another f*****g thread ruined by this books guy. F*** me.

As well as always being f*****g wrong. NO ONE GIVES A F*** WHAT YOU THINK. Stop typing. Please.

No one in QGL history has been this retarded imo, and there has been a great many retards that have come and gone.


You make me so angry.
10:42pm 10/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15126 posts
I think this calls for the return of Mental Patient!
10:46pm 10/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1050 posts
Its OK to be wrong Tollaz. I don't think I've ever seen you admit being wrong on these forums, evening against overwhelming evidence. It even sounds arrogant and mean when i turn it back on you but hey if its good enough for you to deal out,,, right?

Id ask what the f*** is wrong with you toll but I take it you are just getting angry and having a meltdown and reverting to name calling in lew of admitting you were being silly and that you have anything further to offer up as discussion worthy

csirac as for "NO ONE GIVES A F*** WHAT YOU THINK" (your caps btw sooooo cool man very relaxed) we have three pages of discussion about what i think. To be more exact: what i don't believe. Which you say "ruined" a thread that was already pretty much finished and no one was posting anything else in. But please continue to have a tantrum because you know we all care.

btw cute act to threaten to get the guys together to make some kind of attack thread. Very big and mature of you. I cant wait.
02:08pm 11/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15136 posts


Its OK to be wrong Tollaz. I don't think I've ever seen you admit being wrong on these forums, evening against overwhelming evidence.


Ask phreex, with one of his firsts posts he spoke of something technical PC related, I said what I thought it was. He said his thing, then I found I was probably wrong, said as much and backed the f*** out of there. Turns out Phreex was right about the problem.

That's one example off the top of my head.

I'm not getting angry, I'm bewildered.
02:26pm 11/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1053 posts
well i didn't type out a huge post just for fun or for my health right? I even deliberately did not post it because it was a big post and people were grumbling. How about that hey? I only posted it after you challenged me on my belief. And this might sound a bit "victim" of me but is that the way you want AG to operate? That i feel i cant respond to peoples posts just because it might require a long post to get at exactly what i mean?

Maybe i meant what i typed. Maybe that is how i think and what i believe. And to have you attack it and just be mean in general in some off the cuff manner with no evidence to back up why you felt that way or to make an argument for your reasons with just a "what the f*** is wrong with you" comment isn't helpful.

Im putting the time in here because I think i have something to contribute. Also because i obviously believe there are intelligent people here. If you didnt pick up on that. Its ok if you don't get me. Its even ok if you think im wrong. But you don't need to get mean about it. We do not all have to think alike and on some thing its ok to have a different opinion.

Maybe you should of noticed right away we were discussing what i believe. A technical problem that requires a set solution is not the same as philosophy and belief systems. Just saying.

You can ask GA people if Ive admitted to being wrong in the past. You will find i have. Finally i had to point out on GA that maybe sometimes someone wont supply an argument "proving them right" for reasons that are other than they have no argument or evidence. Some might think they cant back up their claims or that there is no substance to them but I hope you know what i mean. it happens.
03:05pm 11/02/14 Permalink
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Thailand
859 posts
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Brisbane, Queensland
6369 posts
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Thailand
862 posts
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Melbourne, Victoria
875 posts
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Thailand
866 posts
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Brisbane, Queensland
10967 posts
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Melbourne, Victoria
876 posts
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07:27pm 11/02/14 Permalink
carson
Melbourne, Victoria
2327 posts
So, as someone studying psychology and just did a cert 4 in mental health, RuleofBookz is a f*****g moron.

I have more authority than him in saying addiction is a real thing. I'd gladly cite about a billion medical, psychological, psychiatry and social science journals about addiction and how it's a real thing if you would like Rulez. But, you're probably made up your mind and, like anti-vaxxers, nothing will change it. But if you do want some evidence, I'll gladly provide.
09:55pm 11/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1059 posts
You are saying the same things the last guys did meat head. Such as:

You can't deny it exists because it does:
Just because you want to call it something else doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


and your answer will be the same:

"Try telling atheists that".

You sound like a religious person talking to an atheist who just doesn't believe in all your books and writings. For some reason you feel the need to prove what you believe and you feel the need to do it so much you need to push it on to others. So you can cite a million cases where its said to exist. I can cite a million people who say god exists. That make it true?

Why dont you go back a page and read my post where the 2nd paragraph is:

1st up: word. Language. You could definitely say a facet of this discussion is that I do not like the word addiction - the label. But just substituting the word for another word is not the solution. Because then we would be back to


and read the entire post. But read it not like its written by "rule of BooKz the f*****g moron." (your words) but as if its in your uni textbook as some counter theory or whatever. Critic it. Actually look at the points made instead of doing what toll did and dismiss it out of hand (if that is what he did). If you want to do that and have a decent conversation I'll gladly provide.
11:57pm 11/02/14 Permalink
baz
Victoria
464 posts
Interesting..
Clearly it would be a big task just convincing everybody that addiction doesn't exist but after that how would you go about treating people with drug dependency?
Or would society as a whole have to operate differently to tackle drug problems?
07:48am 12/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15144 posts
I did tell you why rulez, but you missed the points, you didn't comprehend it or you just didn't care. There is no point having a logical discussion with you. It has happened in way to many threads now. End of story.
08:52am 12/02/14 Permalink
ph33x
Thailand
1310 posts
Stop being a meat head carson.

Nobody likes a meat head.
10:10am 12/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1064 posts
Clearly it would be a big task just convincing everybody that addiction doesn't exist

you can move mountains before you can move someone to change the way they think.

Or would society as a whole have to operate differently to tackle drug problems

Exactly. To tackle many problems. A whole better level of care and competency. Drugs should not be a problem. Anyone should be free to get any substance they want and as much as they want and do with it as they want with the one proviso that they don't f*** with other people and ruin their day. Everything in moderation and balance.

Tollaz0r! there is no serious reply from you after my post explaining my position last page. There is one from you stating: "wtf is wrong with you" and one saying you have been wrong before and one removed for Not Relevant. I fail to see I have missed the points, didn't comprehend it or just didn't care. The fact im asking you where your argument is seems to indicate i do care.
02:58pm 12/02/14 Permalink
TDog
Brisbane, Queensland
278 posts
I'm up for the legalisation of drugs. Money spent on drug enforcement could be better spent on health programs preventing people from using them, or addiction centres.

Organised crime with drugs reduces to zero.

Government gets huge tax revenue for even more roads, education and other stuff.

It's time we dropped the irrational 1940's fear of drugs.
04:55pm 12/02/14 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
21443 posts
You sound like a religious person talking to an atheist who just doesn't believe in all your books and writings.


You know theres a difference between researched, peer reviewed, evidence-based 'writings' and faith based scripture right? Surely you can see that.
05:15pm 12/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1072 posts
Khel of course there is. But that being one thing doesn't mean everything else is being equal.

Mental s*** is still a very sketchy area. Sure you ask medical professionals how "advanced" we are in the treatment of mental s*** and they will most like say "great thanks for asking" but just 100 years ago mental patients were locked up in torture settings. Electric shock therapy was only what 20 or 30 years ago and still seen by some as good treatment.

As sad as it is we do not know exactly how the mind works and stuff remains a mystery. One patient responds to treatment and anther doesn't.

To me mental addiction is just another of these nebulous things that is more a placeholder to a problem that is known but cant or wont be addressed. It is a symptom of something but that something is not over eating powerful psychoactive substances or playing pokies too much. Its society that's f***ed and so creates the lie of addiction to pull over itself like a child's comforting blanket hides the darkness.

Addiction doesn't exist. And like anything that doesn't exist it is only our belief in it that gives it strength to hurt us or help us. Addiction doesn't help anyone so i wont give it my belief.
03:20pm 13/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15158 posts

Addiction doesn't exist.


Cool, tell that to the people that:

ad·dic·tion (ə-dĭk′shən)

1.
a. Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance: a drug used in the treatment of heroin addiction.
b. An instance of this: a person with multiple chemical addictions.

2.
a. The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something.
b. An instance of this: had an addiction for fast cars.


Addiction has a meaning, it is the name of a condition irrelevant of how it occurs in the mind and body. It really is as simple as that.
03:29pm 13/02/14 Permalink
RuleofBooKz
Melbourne, Victoria
1074 posts

you didn't read the post i told carson to read b4. I know because if you had you would not be posting the definition to addiction as i already made this post here:

http://www.ausgamers.com/forums/general/thread.php/3409133?p=4

which addressed it (the long post).

IF you cant find the post or where in the post i addressed that issue please get back to me.


03:45pm 13/02/14 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
15160 posts
Nahh I'm just calling you out whenever I see you say something like 'Addiction doesn't exist' I'm not going back to any of your rants. I don't care if you want to call it something else, or if you don't agree with treatments or underlying causes of addiction, I do care if you blatantly ignore the meaning of words.

The fact remains addiction has a meaning and no amount of rambling is going to change that.
05:07pm 13/02/14 Permalink
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