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John Carmack: "a lot of next gen games will still target 30 fps...
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
13944 posts
Although the next generation consoles known to be in the works at Sony and Microsoft are expected to bring a significant jump in processing power, and subsequently have the capability to push out higher frame-rates and screen resolutions, it's uncertain how important these factors will be to publishers and developers of next gen games.

id Software veteran and technical programming legend John Carmack seems to think that higher frame-rates won't be a priority for most titles, responding on Twitter with "unfortunately, I can pretty much guarantee that a lot of next gen games will still target 30 fps."

Carmack's comment mirrors our own expectations, as we anticipate publishers to use the extra cycles on pumping out more polygons, higher resolution textures, and rendering effects at the good-enough frame rate of 30, rather than doubling down for a smooth 60.

By the same token, we expect to see a lot of next-gen console games sticking to 720p, rather than sacrificing resources to hit 1080p, let alone the mythical 4K resolutions the next PlayStation is rumoured to be capable of outputting.

Games such as the Call of Duty series, and id Software's RAGE have targeted 60 FPS on current generation consoles, but they are few and far between, with 30 FPS viewed as acceptable for most titles.

Fortunately, fans of 60 frames per second on PC hardware will still always be able to throw more money at their rig for smooth and delightful gameplay.
12:15pm 18/12/12 Permalink
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12:15pm 18/12/12 Permalink
glynd
Melbourne, Victoria
857 posts
wasn't the PS3 meant to run 1080p @ 120 fps?
12:22pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Zakson
Gold Coast, Queensland
323 posts
120fps or gtfo
12:26pm 18/12/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
10599 posts
I'm thinking that in marketing materials like screenshots and videos the wow factor is in the "polygons, higher resolution textures, and rendering effects", not in frame rate. Even seeing the game most people would not be wise to the 30fps, but better graphics are easily appreciated.
12:31pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Thundercracker
Brisbane, Queensland
3267 posts
30 fps is all you need
12:34pm 18/12/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
5295 posts
I read this and went meh! another reason why i dont buy consoles and especially FPS on consoles...
PC gaming FTW
12:44pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7706 posts
Makes sense the human eyes cannot see more than 24fps anyway.
01:04pm 18/12/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3827 posts
01:23pm 18/12/12 Permalink
glynd
Melbourne, Victoria
858 posts
Makes sense the human eyes cannot see more than 24fps anyway.


can't help but love the classics.
02:10pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
4123 posts
Makes sense the human eyes cannot see more than 24fps anyway.
trolololol
02:47pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Damo
1 posts
Having played games at a steady 14fps (try running Arma 2 on a 9600gt) to averaging 80fps in most games, i can honestly say a game is better at a STEADY 30fps with improved graphics, then a game with an UNSTEADY 60fps with worse graphics. Also, the myth that a game is "Unplayable" at below 30fps is just ridiculous.
03:16pm 18/12/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21961 posts
Hopefully John 'Dinosaur' Carmack has as little say as possible in the actual development of next-gen consoles.
03:20pm 18/12/12 Permalink
DecayingCorpse
Brisbane, Queensland
2108 posts
the next generation consoles

lol. consoles.
03:35pm 18/12/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21962 posts
Consoles are a bit of a joke at the moment (I sold my 360) but I have high hopes that the next-gen will have some serious hardware and maybe some fun gimmicks as well.
03:42pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Zakson
Gold Coast, Queensland
325 posts
Also, the myth that a game is "Unplayable" at below 30fps is just ridiculous.

Did anyone make a list of worst first posts of 2012?
04:41pm 18/12/12 Permalink
matula
1 posts
high fps, low-fi graphics, for the win.
the best game ever was made in 1996.
07:38pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Vash
3625 posts
isn't valve making a console? Bring it.
Carmack is abit behind, though, isn't he?
07:45pm 18/12/12 Permalink
groganus
Brisbane, Queensland
2448 posts
Consoles are a bit of a joke at the moment (I sold my 360) but I have high hopes that the next-gen will have some serious hardware and maybe some fun gimmicks as well.


Having seen nothing remotely interesting from the kinect or ps move I feel much the same way, sadly its tainted me with skepticism when it comes to the Wii U, though games like ZombieU peak my interest but sadly not enough to buy, I still hold hope nintendo pick up there game with Zelda and a new Mario and make everything good in the world again.

The 360 and PS3 both brought pc quality gaming to the TV but with things like Steams Big Picture mode and the rumours (or are they confirmed) of Valve going into the console space (lets not forget all the andorid based consoles on the horizon).. Sony and Xbox really need something thats innovative, impressive and not a gimmick for me to be a day one buyer.

Carmack is abit behind, though, isn't he?


I wouldn't say behind, but he does focus his attentions elsewhere. He has a brillant mind and is still probably one of the sharpest tools in the industry.
07:48pm 18/12/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
16396 posts
the rumours (or are they confirmed) of Valve going into the console space


gabe confirmed it
07:50pm 18/12/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2394 posts
Hopefully John 'Dinosaur' Carmack has as little say as possible in the actual development of next-gen consoles.

While id's recent games have been totally underwhelming, at least Carmack has actually been playing around with new things technology-wise (albeit not always successfully), eg. Megatextures, Oculus Rift.

I'd much rather old 'Dinosaur' had meaningful input into the development of next-gen consoles than the developers of hugely popular series like CoD or FIFA.
08:03pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Vash
3626 posts
i think he's given too much attention. Crytek seem to be the latest to push the envelope. Yet i dont know a single name in that dev team.
08:20pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Linker
Brisbane, Queensland
1718 posts
PS4 is rumoured to output 4k? Surely Sony can't afford to make another console that continually loses bucket loads money on launch, otherwise it's got to be worse than the 599 USD price debacle of the PS3 release.
08:23pm 18/12/12 Permalink
groganus
Brisbane, Queensland
2449 posts
The ps3 was spose to have from memory 2 hdmi ports... but didn't.... What sony says and what sony delivers are 2 very different things.
08:39pm 18/12/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2395 posts
i think he's given too much attention. Crytek seem to be the latest to push the envelope. Yet i dont know a single name in that dev team.
Is it that he's "given too much attention", or is it that he – unlike any CryTek dev – actually talks to the community often and in detail about interesting new technologies that he's working on or has seen in and around the industry?
(Genuine question, I don't know if CryTek devs do that or not, though I'm guessing not.)

The ps3 was spose to have from memory 2 hdmi ports... but didn't.... What sony says and what sony delivers are 2 very different things.
That was actually one of my biggest disappointments with the PS3, well, until they started removing features after it was released as well.
08:54pm 18/12/12 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
8739 posts
high fps, low-fi graphics, for the win.
Right on, I scale back the graphics so I get 60fps+ in huge fire fights.

I spent years playing TF2 in 640x480.
09:00pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
21027 posts
Right on, I scale back the graphics so I get 60fps+ in huge fire fights.

I spent years playing TF2 in 640x480.

Lots of people (brother included) scoff at me for this. I value smooth gameplay over the pretty. Moreso I value the "magic" fps. Yeah, you all know what I'm talking about.
11:51pm 18/12/12 Permalink
APK
Sydney, New South Wales
26 posts
Also, the myth that a game is "Unplayable" at below 30fps is just ridiculous.
I double dare you to say that at any fighting game dev or FG tourney.
12:02am 19/12/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8282 posts
I'd take great gameplay over Crysis style graphics any day of the week. Something might look pretty, but could be the most boring and tedious thing because developers didn't focus on that.
12:06am 19/12/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
21028 posts
Also, the myth that a game is "Unplayable" at below 30fps is just ridiculous.I double dare you to say that at any fighting game dev or FG tourney.

w-hat? cs, quake, cod, all of them suck at anything below 60fps.
12:23am 19/12/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2397 posts
I'm pretty sure he's saying that because he can play Street Fighter 2 at below 30 FPS it means that any game of any genre is automatically fine below 30 FPS.
12:44am 19/12/12 Permalink
Rdizz
Germany
2237 posts
if you would like to compare 30fps to 60 or more just use fraps and record at 30fps while playing a game then play normally with 60+ and tell me you dont notice a difference.
04:32am 19/12/12 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4173 posts
30 fps ought to be enough for anybody
05:00am 19/12/12 Permalink
APK
Sydney, New South Wales
27 posts
Insom
Posted 05:00am 19/12/12
30 fps ought to be enough for anybody

I said it before and I'll say it again, 60 FPS is NECESSARY in any fighting game due to frame data for individual moves (how many frames of animation) and the ability to input more moves per second.
09:06am 19/12/12 Permalink
PornoPete
UK
800 posts
I think Carmack also comes from another era of game development. Individually famous devs, seem pretty rare these days. There are still some I guess, but on the whole it seems like the famous games programmer is a thing of the past.
09:32am 19/12/12 Permalink
Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
20413 posts
Crytek seem to be the latest to push the envelope.


How are they pushing the envelope? They aren't doing anything new, they're just using prettier textures/shaders/models/animations. I wouldn't call that pushing the envelope, its not like they're pioneering any new tech or trying something really different.
11:35am 19/12/12 Permalink
greazy
Brisbane, Queensland
5632 posts
Who is then pushing the envelope?
11:50am 19/12/12 Permalink
badfunkstripe
161 posts
I find 40 fps is around where it starts to not be noticeable and annoying on my PC.
12:14pm 19/12/12 Permalink
orbitor
Brisbane, Queensland
8933 posts
Unfortunately optimization is very expensive and time consuming and I doubt it results in much more revenue.
12:38pm 19/12/12 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6712 posts
I don't think optimisation is the issue, it's the fact that any 60fps game is going to have to compete for sales with the prettier 30fps games.
12:58pm 19/12/12 Permalink
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12:58pm 19/12/12 Permalink
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