Follow on for our second entry in the on-going review of World of Warcraft's fifth expansion, Warlords of Draenor
World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor: Day 8 - Garrisons
We chat with Blizzard's Hearthstone team on all the juicy info about the first expansion to highly-successful card game Hearthstone
Hearthstone: Goblins vs Gnomes Developer Interview
We take a nostalgic look back at one of the best N64 games to ever be made, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Throwback Thursday - The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
Another school shooting in the US
MARLINBLADE
Queensland
502 posts
Just read the news this morning about yet another shooting at a school in the US. Heaps of kids shot and killed, all round 5 - 10.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-15/dozens-shot-dead-in-us-school-mass-shooting/4429384

This really gets to me hey. As a father, i could not fathom how hard it would be to lose a child. My heart really goes out to the parents, but seriously, the gun laws over there surely have to be tightened up now. I know it's the american thing about protect your property, right to bear arms etc, but f*** me, this was a bunch of kids who had their whole life ahead of them.

Makes me glad we live in this country to be honest, we're not perfect but we're a hell of a lot safer than most.
08:21am 15/12/12 Permalink
system
Internet
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08:21am 15/12/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3249 posts
News ATM is saying up to 27 dead.
08:25am 15/12/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7005 posts
From what I read earlier, it was 20 kids lined up execution style, plus the principle and school psychologist. The shooter was a 24 year old whose mother worked at the school, but he'd killed her at home, and his dad at his home somewhere else...

Drives home just how much freedom guns don't bring people.
08:28am 15/12/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34758 posts
its an americans right to own guns!
08:30am 15/12/12 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
10415 posts
to quote mrs hardware
the largest injustice about this is that the families of the victims have no outlet to quell their grief and sadness
09:21am 15/12/12 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5676 posts
What sort of f*****g nut bar goes shooting little kids? Seriously they need to look into peoples mental health in the us!
10:36am 15/12/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3822 posts
USA need to tighten up the security ten fold at schools. The security should have been at a level where they could have stopped this f***** at the gates/in his tracks, asked him wtf he's doing there and check his bags etc.

I don't think changing gun laws will help much, if someone really wants a gun, they will get a gun. The population there is over 300 million, how on earth are you going to police that? Each school needs more security presence.

I don't understand why people like this take lives of innocent people (in this case little kids), if your not happy with your life then just kill yourself instead of others ay.
10:59am 15/12/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9851 posts
USA need to tighten up the security ten fold at schools. The security should have been at a level where they could have stopped this f***** at the gates/in his tracks, asked him wtf he's doing there and check his bags etc.

I don't think changing gun laws will help much, if someone really wants a gun, they will get a gun. The population there is over 300 million, how on earth are you going to police that? Each school needs more security presence.

I don't understand why people like this take lives of innocent people (in this case little kids), if your not happy with your life then just kill yourself instead of others ay.


Why is this level of security required no where else in the civilized world ?
11:54am 15/12/12 Permalink
Mephz
Brisbane, Queensland
1236 posts
Seriously they need to look into peoples mental health in the us!
I refer you to the DH radio station/suicide thread.

The attitudes of some idiots here alone which is but a small sample size of the populace is the whole reason mental health will never get more funding, recognition and early intervention.
11:56am 15/12/12 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5678 posts
What worries me is that if such an individual got their hands on something more powerful than a gun. What then?
12:07pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Zakson
Gold Coast, Queensland
321 posts
You mean like a suicide bomber?
12:34pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6708 posts
The population there is over 300 million, how on earth are you going to police that?
The same way you police a population of 3 million or 30 million.
12:43pm 15/12/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19347 posts
terrible, so sad.
12:50pm 15/12/12 Permalink
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
8056 posts
Interesting video doing the rounds by ABC (US) on training for concealed carry. They give people gun training then test them "under pressure"

01:00pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Nukleuz
Perth, Western Australia
234 posts
The NRA/gun lobbyists will be out in force. I still remember the speech Charlton Heston gave (posted below) which, if memory serves was shortly after the Columbine massacre.

I think this comment I saw on youtube sums up the retarded thought process of the gun nuts. "It is better to have warm live hands with a gun in it than cold dead ones without."

01:08pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6709 posts
01:18pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
21017 posts
right to bear arms etc
http://i.imgur.com/S9Dw9.jpg
01:23pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13191 posts
Ban your guns already, make them require a license with purpose at the least. There is no reason people 'need' to own pistols and all sorts of other weapons. This is a stupid thing to let people just have.
01:29pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
21018 posts
because criminals will all just stop carrying guns after they're banned. toll saves the world again.
01:34pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6710 posts
Criminals are going to break the law, why have any laws?
02:21pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Totenkopf
Melbourne, Victoria
565 posts
Sorry for the little kids...but theres only worst to come for the yanks ...they have brought this upon themselves
02:37pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Gesthemene
Brisbane, Queensland
1377 posts
One of the idiot f***wit Americans I'm "friends" with on Facebook (as opposed to the totally cool Americans I also have on there) has come out with the following gem:

Today many innocent lives were lost, please pray for those children and the families affected. May the Lord comfort them in this extremely difficult time. All teachers from here on out should be armed to protect there classrooms so a tragedy like this never happens again!


Seriously, what the f*** is wrong with people like this?
02:50pm 15/12/12 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
8345 posts
This is a gem from a friend of a friend;


xxxxx in this case they will have to take away Spoons also. Spoons make people fat you know... If you do your research you'll find that People have saved more lives with the help of firearms then taken them.
03:15pm 15/12/12 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2246 posts
Very sad, poor bastards left behind to deal with this. Being a dad of a 3 1/2 year old I think that if something like that happened it would just about finish me. What's even sadder is that as bad as it is to admit, these stories raise less rage and sadness and sense of real grief than they once did. We are slowly becoming desenitised to this level of violence, and I think it must be difficult to have perspective living in the US when this is almost taken as a given.

Someone I know on FB posted the following:

[The GF] had a great idea. We should have the national guard deployed in sufficient numbers at every school, movie theater, and public gathering place. We should be like Israel. We should be able to protect our people against these things. That is the #1 duty of a government.

Not sure if he was being sarcastic..

In my opinion, this sort of thinking is part of the problem (I suspect after his election ranting on FB his comment was actually serious). Yeah, don't take responsibility and actually reduce the number of guns in the community, just militarise and move more towards a police state where complacency (regarding putting gun control in the too hard basket) and fear dictate how society operates.


03:28pm 15/12/12 Permalink
BOHEMION
Brisbane, Queensland
559 posts
Take away that bloody right to arms; carry conceal and open carry wild west bulls***.... That is plain rediculous. Search Youtube on all the a*******s that flex their rights in regards to open carry... Just useless.
03:52pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3013 posts
Why is this level of security required no where else in the civilized world ?
88.8 guns per 100 people.
04:17pm 15/12/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21949 posts
Jesus christ. This is a really bad one. Shootings like this could almost be described as common in the US but occasionally one like this comes along that reminds you exactly what some sick people are capable of.
04:19pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Tiny
Brisbane, Queensland
3334 posts
because criminals will all just stop carrying guns after they're banned. toll saves the world again.


Then do what? Sit back and let it happen. Our laws work well here, i so no reason why the same logic could not be applied in some way to the US? I was honestly emotional watching that video. I can't believe somebody would do something like this. For some reason this one has really driven the point home.
04:25pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3014 posts
Still, nothing will be done on gun laws. The tears look good on TV but are ultimately hollow, meanwhile the gun manufactures are rubbing their hands as they are about to get another boost in sales as dumb ass Americans feel a need to protect them selves with a gun and partly from a fear that actual gun regulation will happen this time round. But the same people rubbing their hands have made sure that won't happen. Win-win for them.
04:39pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8268 posts
Such a sad day, feel deeply sorry for all the parents now left with a hollow memory of their children. Already games are getting the bad end of the stick, the mis-labelled killer Ryan Lanza (who is actually the brother of the real killer) "liked" the Mass Effect page and suddenly people flooded it calling out that it was the cause of this horrific event. America logic.
06:42pm 15/12/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
16371 posts
yeah fox immediately jumped on the blame video games, movies and social media wagon.
07:15pm 15/12/12 Permalink
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
8057 posts
Earlier in the week a man stabbed 22 children and an adult at a primary school in China.

AFP: Man stabs 22 children at China primary school

While 22 kids being stabbed is horrific, none died.
07:43pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5508 posts
Our laws work well here, i so no reason why the same logic could not be applied in some way to the US?


Our gun laws succeeded because all they required were a little political will and a simple act of parliament.
The same logic wouldn't work for the US because there's limited political will, 50 very different and forthright jurisdictions and a pesky constitutional amendment to deal with.
08:29pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3015 posts
yeah fox immediately jumped on the blame video games, movies and social media wagon.

And the removal of god from schools (as it should be). Anything but the real issue.
08:37pm 15/12/12 Permalink
durgaprasad
Other International
1 posts
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08:57pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13231 posts
Our gun laws succeeded because all they required were a little political will and a simple act of parliament.The same logic wouldn't work for the US because there's limited political will, 50 very different and forthright jurisdictions and a pesky constitutional amendment to deal with.

That covers establishment, not success.
08:58pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5509 posts
establishment is first and arguably the biggest hurdle on the path to success though
09:19pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7013 posts
12:47am 16/12/12 Permalink
qmass
Queensland
10461 posts
more like burnbull
01:36am 16/12/12 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3016 posts
Turnbull from the top ropes!!! +100 respect.
02:03am 16/12/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7015 posts
Apparently his mother was an avid range shooter, and it was her 3 guns that he used to kill her and then 27 others.

If only she had had more guns and more training experience, she would have been so much safer.
03:24am 16/12/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3519 posts
I think I have worked out why this keeps happening,

in other countries, if you do something wrong, it is your fault,

in the US often when something wrong happens, they look to blame others, rather than accept fault,


ergo, if you're in this dark and down place, you might look at it all, and take your life, unless you're in the US, where it is clearly everyone else making you feel like this, time to kill them all, them yourself
04:42pm 16/12/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7019 posts
I'm pretty sure that it's actually just that they have houses full of guns.
04:53pm 16/12/12 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3017 posts
I think I have worked out why this keeps happening, in other countries, if you do something wrong, it is your fault, in the US often when something wrong happens, they look to blame others, rather than accept fault, ergo, if you're in this dark and down place, you might look at it all, and take your life, unless you're in the US, where it is clearly everyone else making you feel like this, time to kill them all, them yourself

But he did take his own life, it's just that he had 3 guns readily available to him and used them to kill his mother and a bunch of kids before hand. There is no getting around the fact that the US is flooded with guns.
05:04pm 16/12/12 Permalink
WirlWind
Central Coast, New South Wales
435 posts
Apparently his mother was an avid range shooter, and it was her 3 guns that he used to kill her and then 27 others.If only she had had more guns and more training experience, she would have been so much safer.


Kind of an unfair poke, since she wouldn't have been expecting to be shot by her son. Even if she was expecting it, who's to say she would have been able to pull the trigger on her own son.

If it was a burglar, however, she may very well have survived it.
07:52pm 16/12/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7028 posts
since she wouldn't have been expecting to be shot

...
Because most violence is otherwise done in honour-bound duels with regulations and no surprises?..

This is what I don't get about the pro "guns to defend myself" people - if you're not the person starting the violence, you're probably already dead, and didn't see it coming. She was heavily armed and heavily experienced, and it caused the problem in the first place, not in any way prevented it. She took her mentally ill kid to the firing range regularly, and kept a huge collection of guns in her house - and created a mass murderer for it, not gained better security.
08:02pm 16/12/12 Permalink
cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
1845 posts
oh come on nerf you know thats not true.

ban the guns so only criminals can get them. dont be a turkey
08:21pm 16/12/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3521 posts
I'm pretty sure that it's actually just that they have houses full of guns.



not really, sure all that easy access doesnt help, but hey, in other euro countries where every man past a certain age had at least one military gun in the house, it wasn't mass shooting that changed the rule, it was suicides

these people are driven into a dark place, be it thru bullying or mental illness, the issue is when the blame others for how they feel, and feel they need to take it out on them.
08:25pm 16/12/12 Permalink
natslovR
Sydney, New South Wales
8059 posts
I'm sure the NRA will/has torn it apart but here's an interesting article about the Harvard School of Public Health finding that in wealthy countries more guns result in higher murder rate, even if you exclude the US:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/41341_Harvard_School_of_Public_Health-_More_Guns_=_More_Homicide
08:27pm 16/12/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3522 posts
all that shows is more gun more death

now if that was done as a percentage of pop, and relate that back to the non gun homicide rate it would be meaningful

edit>>>> it is like saying that more people = more murder, so lets ban people and not look at the causes
08:30pm 16/12/12 Permalink
mental
Brisbane, Queensland
3696 posts
I am upset that 'they' are planning to picket the Children's funerals.
09:01pm 16/12/12 Permalink
HerbalLizard
Brisbane, Queensland
5686 posts
So anyone keen to see WBC freedom of speech vs the right to bare arms?
10:31pm 16/12/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9853 posts
edit>>>> it is like saying that more people = more murder, so lets ban people and not look at the causes

Would the crazy person have killed as many people with out the firearm ? ... of course not.

Guns enable people to kill people faster than most other methods.
01:05am 17/12/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3523 posts
Would the crazy person have killed as many people with out the firearm ? ... of course not.

Guns enable people to kill people faster than most other methods.


limiting the access to the guns I dont have an issue, however it doesn't solve the problem (how people are getting to the point where they feel this is the only option)

if you dont fix the cause, and ban all the guns, it will be bombings, or cars driving thru halls or waiting areas, stabbings on school buses

education, and intervention are going to be long term better fixing than the knee jerk reaction off bans
03:30am 17/12/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7031 posts
It's not exactly a "knee jerk reaction" when it's been decades in the making, for attempting to slow these continuous horrible events.

I'm not sure what "only the criminals will have guns" is supposed to be arguing for, we criminalise or sorts of undesirable things from driving fast around schools, driving with a blood alcohol level above x, to flying planes without a license, having certain guns, etc. These are pragmatic and realistic solutions to these problems, many will change their habits to fit the law and avoid fines or revoking of licenses.
03:48am 17/12/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3525 posts
nerf, dont add extras into my argument (crims have guns etc)

and this argument comes up as a huge passionate thing every year (about how often there is a mass shooting in the US), it is knee jerk, and it will all calm down till the next one,


the way the US works, each state would have to agree to any massive changes, that isn't going to happen

if you look at the problem (kids getting to the point where they lash out, and kill fellow school mates)
not the method (shootings)

but removing one method, another will become first choice,
04:00am 17/12/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7032 posts
(crims have guns etc)

That was in response to somebody who quoted me earlier.

and this argument comes up as a huge passionate thing every year (about how often there is a mass shooting in the US), it is knee jerk, and it will all calm down till the next one,

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. You seem to be arguing with yourself. "It's a regular terrible thing" followed by "Calling it a terrible regular thing is just a knee jerk reaction because it happened yet again, there's no actual reason to call it that."

but removing one method, another will become first choice,

Killing without a tailored killing tool is a much harder task, and much easier to stop. Tools exist for a reason and change the difficulties of their unique problems, you can't just throw that part of reality out.

"Taking away computers won't actually change IT achievements, people can just use an abacus or pen and paper."

"Better not take away nukes from Iran and North Korea, they'll just knife everybody in their target city if you take away their nuclear bomb option. Best not worry about regulating nuclear material so that it doesn't fall into the hands of islamic terrorists, they'll just find another way, any pragmatic action ever taken for security is actually hopeless as of right now because our brains have just fallen out out and we are no longer practical people."

"If you take away the easiest and most deadly form of killing machines, killing won't have aaaanyyy identifiable mechanism for how it might be reduced.' Your logic is broken, not that it's logic, you're really just spouting the typical senseless catchphrases of the gun masturbators. Think.
04:31am 17/12/12 Permalink
Viper119
UK
1791 posts
The answer is gun control, it's not difficult.

Gun related homicides to civilian ownership of guns.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2012/jul/22/gun-ownership-homicides-map
04:51am 17/12/12 Permalink
Saint
Cainer
Brisbane, Queensland
3232 posts
Maybe if all the kids were carrying then this wouldn't have been as bad as it was. The answer is MORE guns, not less. Implement mandatory gun practice for children from the age of 2 onward.
07:49am 17/12/12 Permalink
MARLINBLADE
Queensland
503 posts
Better not take away nukes from Iran and North Korea, they'll just knife everybody in their target city if you take away their nuclear bomb option


I lol'd but damn that is the truth right there.

I like the gun laws here, there's still a lot of f***wits with guns, but bloody hell, there's a f*** load of them without guns and that's how it should be.
07:51am 17/12/12 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4170 posts
i'm almost happy for the crims to have guns if they are mostly just busting caps in one another's arses

don't think anyone posted this yet - gun crime stats in Australia showing before/after the new gun laws brought in after Port Arthur in 1996, and a corresponding drop in gun moida
08:02am 17/12/12 Permalink
Hybr|d
Brisbane, Queensland
913 posts
Our gun laws succeeded because all they required were a little political will and a simple act of parliament.
The same logic wouldn't work for the US because there's limited political will, 50 very different and forthright jurisdictions and a pesky constitutional amendment to deal with.


Not to mention that we are an island with a population that is 1/15 of the US. It would be a completely different story with Mexico and several other developing nations right next door.
08:27am 17/12/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7034 posts
Not to mention that we are an island with a population that is 1/15 of the US. It would be a completely different story with Mexico and several other developing nations right next door.

Canada, Europe?
08:45am 17/12/12 Permalink
Linker
Brisbane, Queensland
1716 posts
I'm with Nerf. So what if only the crims have guns then, they usually aren't the ones going and conducting these shooting sprees.

When I was in Vegas last year I ended up chatting with a man who turned out to be a very proud member of the NRA and proceeded to show us his membership card and licences for teaching shotgun and rifle use.

"How do you protect yourself in a deadly situation or what if you were going to be robbed?"

"Well luckily, in Australia if you were being attacked or robbed, we would be under the assumption the attacker DOESN'T have a gun".

He couldn't believe how "under-armed" we could all be. "What about your civil rights?!?!" We had a bit of discussion and he couldn't believe our gun laws, started calling us Aussie Commies!


There is a real stigma with mental health in the US and that needs more importance put on it too.
09:03am 17/12/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7035 posts
"Well luckily, in Australia if you were being attacked or robbed, we would be under the assumption the attacker DOESN'T have a gun".

On that note, most police in the UK don't even carry guns now, and officers have explained that they don't want to, as it just raises the stakes for criminals. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398

I was outside a little shop in st lucia when there was an attempted robbery, the guy used a knife and couldn't do jack s*** with it. I think that the woman at the counter actually fought him off with scissors while screaming so loudly that her husband came down and sent the guy running.
09:15am 17/12/12 Permalink
do0b
Brisbane, Queensland
4478 posts
i was in a servo at red hill and a little crumb tried to rob the place by saying he had a gun in his jacket. Cashier f*****g decked him =0 most unexpected thing ever.
09:29am 17/12/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13197 posts
The following quote is pretty much sums up the stupid infesting the US political system:


But others like Republican congressman Louie Gohmert wish the school principal had had a weapon of her own.

"I wish to God she had had an M4 [military assault rifle] in her office locked up so when she heard gunfire she pulls it out and she didn't have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands, but she takes him out, takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids."



Taken from ABC News, and this guy is a policy maker. That is the sort of quote I expect from a 15 year old kid, not from a 60 year old 'professional'. (BTW he thinks more guns are the answer...)
10:03am 17/12/12 Permalink
do0b
Brisbane, Queensland
4479 posts
"I wish to God she had had an M4 [military assault rifle] in her office locked up so when she heard gunfire she pulls it out and she didn't have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands, but she takes him out, takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids."


nice troll guy, little too soon.
10:46am 17/12/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9854 posts
Guns aren't problem ... it's the violent video games!
10:54am 17/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13237 posts
Yeh the problem is that lots of Americans love their guns too much, and honestly believe that there is a little Rambo in everyone waiting to strike down with great vengeance and furious anger.

Gun control would work but its a massively hard sell.
11:00am 17/12/12 Permalink
kappa
Brisbane, Queensland
2005 posts
Hog is right. Unfortunately their attitude towards guns has to change first. And since that will never happen you can forget about gun control.
12:08pm 17/12/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5511 posts
Guns aren't problem ... it's the violent video games!

Violent video games and Marilyn Manson!
12:15pm 17/12/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1337 posts
12:41pm 17/12/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
16387 posts
apparently the mother of the killer was one of those doomsday preppers.
05:05pm 17/12/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13202 posts
Obama might actually try some sort of gun reform?
05:37pm 17/12/12 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3018 posts
Obama might actually try some sort of gun reform?

I'd be surprised if did try something, that would be a plus. If he does though, it will not succeed.
05:44pm 17/12/12 Permalink
Karmadelik
Brisbane, Queensland
193 posts
if there was ever a time that gun reform happened in the US it would be now. The NRA and associated gun clubs all supported the Republicans, in the election just gone, so if Obama were to push for it early in his 2nd term he might have some level of success. Americans do love their guns though and it would be quite difficult to achieve this.
07:20pm 17/12/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3526 posts
meh, i remember clinton banning assault rifles

that didn't last all that long
07:56pm 17/12/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7557 posts
Obama's got a fresh four years to do something right. He doesn't have to worry about re-election, but there's little that can be done. Let's say he goes best-case - bans new purchases, makes it illegal to be in possession of firearms, and issues a buyback at massive cost to the US treasury. The number of firearms that would still be out there because people insist it's unconstitutional, and because groups of organised crime realise just how easier it would make things for them when they have all the guns - I doubt the US would become a safer place, such is the sheer number of firearms they have for every man, woman and child.
While yes, having barely any firearms would solve so many problems, firearms are so deeply entrenched in the US that I can't see there being any going back.
08:20pm 17/12/12 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3019 posts
Is anyone advocating a total ban on firearms? I would not, I'd just seek sane regulations.
08:32pm 17/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13239 posts
Caught this off reddit earlier - Onion did a story, which while satire is probably the best article I've seen on the matter.

WASHINGTON—Following the fatal shooting this morning at a Connecticut elementary school that left at least 27 dead, including 20 small children, sources across the nation shook their heads, stifled a sob in their voices, and reported f*** everything. Just f*** it all to hell.

All of it, sources added.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/f***-everything-nation-reports,30743/
09:03pm 17/12/12 Permalink
Viper119
UK
1792 posts
@Nerf The UK police has never been armed with firearms, other then their special firearms officers (Kind of like SWAT).

Actually, I think the UK Police still hand over to the military for any serious situations involving lotsa guns or hostages.

Watched this cool doco (Only 45 min) about the Iranian Embassy Siege, a near perfect SAS operation. Worth the watch:



There hasn't been many situations like that since!

Obama's got nothing to lose, why doesn't he go hell for leather!?
09:12pm 17/12/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34777 posts
guns dont cause problems, they solve them!

07:41am 18/12/12 Permalink
dranged
Melbourne, Victoria
2057 posts
^ Ahaha, we need assault weapons to protect us from the teeming masses of blacks!
08:31am 18/12/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7040 posts
Her story is sad, yet she's arguing for the perpetuation of a scenario where you need weapons to have an improbable chance of saving yourself from crazier people with weapons, rather than just going the way that the rest of the world did and largely stopping weapons from being out there in the first place.

"If only those preschoolers had guns in their purses, there'd totally be less killing"
08:42am 18/12/12 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
8354 posts

@Nerf The UK police has never been armed with firearms, other then their special firearms officers (Kind of like SWAT).


Same in Ireland. They carry battons and their wits into battle.

Edit: Just to clarify, that's the Garda on the beat. My second cousin is a detective and carries a gun. Was actually a bit of an odd feeling when I was visiting and she came around to say hi and she just put the gun on the coffee table next to her hand bag.
09:18am 18/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13242 posts
Its funny, was reading that the UK police are actually RESISTANT to getting firearms. They feel it will interfere and make it harder for them to do their core role, community policing. They want people to feel they can safely come to the cops for help.

Sounds pretty good to me.
09:26am 18/12/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2391 posts
If the constant school massacres didn't make me think the US was a lost cause, this article certainly does...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/sandy-hook-shooting-gun-sales_n_2317522.html
11:16am 18/12/12 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
8736 posts
If the constant school massacres didn't make me think the US was a lost cause, this article certainly does...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/sandy-hook-shooting-gun-sales_n_2317522.html
This is surely the first time people have rushed to buy an item that's at risk of being banned.
11:20am 18/12/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2392 posts
This is surely the first time people have rushed to buy an item that's at risk of being banned.

Awesome sarcasm! I bet you felt really proud of yourself for that one!!

Stocking up on something they're worried will be banned in the near future is the understandable part of it. The fact that they want or think they need assault rifles in the first place is the bit that is actually disturbing, dips***.

Not to mention the parts unrelated to reactionary purchasing:
Freedom Group, the weapon's manufacturer, reported a 20 percent increase in revenue for the first nine months of this year. “The manufacturers [of the AR-15] can’t keep up with the demand,” Caselnova said.

But I guess you didn't even read down to that part cause you were too excited about posting your hilariously intelligent sarcastic reply!
11:54am 18/12/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7559 posts
Despite them being banned, you would not believe the number of discarded Fireworks shells and packages I find around where my new house is being built.
11:59am 18/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13248 posts
Despite them being banned, you would not believe the number of discarded Fireworks shells and packages I find around where my new house is being built.

Heh, I remember cracker night before it was banned. If you are saying the ban hasn't impacted the number of fireworks in circulation I have to seriously disagree. For the month before the night it was like Christmas decorations, they were everywhere!

For the record I miss cracker night and wish dumbs*** people didn't f*** it up.
12:11pm 18/12/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
16392 posts
i've never heard of cracker night.
12:21pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Reverend Evil
Wynnum, Queensland
21152 posts
Cracker nite is the one nite of the year black folks can get back at the white man for all the bad things they did.
12:45pm 18/12/12 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
8737 posts
Well I don't have a problem with civilians owning semi-automatic rifles Kos, so the fact that the manufacturers sales are increasing doesn't disturb me at all.
12:45pm 18/12/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1341 posts
lol rev
01:13pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13251 posts
i've never heard of cracker night.

Cracker night was awesome. If you were born after the 70s you probably missed it.
For any young child growing up in the suburbs of 1970s Australia, there were three days of any year that you held as holy. One was your birthday, one was Christmas, one – and by far the most primordially sensual, wondrous and potentially lethal to your young life – was Crackernight.

Crackernight was a night of skyrockets, bungers, po-hahs, thunders, Tom Thumbs, ball-shooters, throwdowns, Roman candles, blazing parachutes, Catherine wheels and more. If my birthday celebrated my birth, Christmas the birth of Christ, then Crackernight was my childhood’s annual pagan festival. One night a year, the infinite normality of the suburbs was shot with utter magic.

http://crackernight.com/

Basically, one night a year we used to stock up on fireworks, and then set them off. Adults would get drunk and people would do stupid things with fireworks and sometimes got pretty hurt. There were bonfires and huge parties, and we made scarecrows and then burned them on said bonfires. There was something definitely wicked and darkly fun for a kid to build a man made of straw and clothes, knowing he was going to burn, watching the bonfire eat his legs etc.

These days the closest thing kids get to it is holding a f*****g sparkler under the watchful eye of multiple helicopter parents. Sparklers were what we used to get down to when the fun stuff was all exploded, and we used to throw them at each other. I miss cracker night. It was the antithesis of the politically correct nanny state and its first casualty.
01:22pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5515 posts
i've never heard of cracker night.

Young'un!

For the record I miss cracker night and wish dumbs*** people didn't f*** it up.

My thoughts exactly. I'm old enough to remember a handful of cracker nights just before it was banned in the mid 80's but they were indeed awesome.
02:14pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Mantis
Brisbane, Queensland
1070 posts
I remember Guy Fawkes night growing up in NZ. Pity it ended before i had a chance to really get involved.
02:25pm 18/12/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21967 posts
WARNING: extreme dumbness within

There is literally nothing conspiracy theorists won't be dumb about.
05:15pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3020 posts
Some good TyT clips.

I'm wondering if that shotgun ban mentioned from 1996 here has been overturned, because I'm pretty damn sure you can have a shotgun here.


--
05:39pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6711 posts
I'm wondering if that shotgun ban mentioned from 1996 here has been overturned, because I pretty damn sure you can have a shot gun here.
It wasn't a total shotgun ban, just pump-action and semi-auto shotguns. The video words it a bit poorly by saying "Rapid-fire rifles and shotguns were banned".
06:09pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3021 posts
It wasn't a total shotgun ban, just pump-action and semi-auto shotguns. The video words it a bit poorly by saying "Rapid-fire rifles and shotguns were banned".

Ah, I see.

Just read this John Howard opinion piece from The Age, which says "A key component of the 1996 measure, which banned the sale, importation and possession of all automatic and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, was a national buy-back scheme involving the compulsory forfeiture of newly illegal weapons." So yea that helps clear that up, there must be an acception for double barrel shotguns though. Probably due to the limited shots before a reload.
06:23pm 18/12/12 Permalink
Hybr|d
Brisbane, Queensland
914 posts
Not to mention that we are an island with a population that is 1/15 of the US. It would be a completely different story with Mexico and several other developing nations right next door.

Canada, Europe?


I think you've missed the point. I was simply addressing how difficult (and moreso costly) it would be to implement such a policy in the US given their proximity to developing nations whose arms issuance policies are by no means strict. Realistically, outlawing most weapons in the US (with a policy similar to our own) would just give rise to a huge black market.

Our decision was made so much simpler because Australians didn't have the psychological attachment to guns that so many Americans do, or the separate jurisdictions previously mentioned, such strong lobbyists and because of the reason I previously mentioned. Education is key.

On a side note, I have no idea why you mentioned Canada...

last edited by Hybr|d at 03:33:08 19/Dec/12
03:31am 19/12/12 Permalink
tHeBoRg
Gippsland, Victoria
99 posts
Was wondering how long it would take before video games would be brought up in this tragic case...

"Sandy Hook gunman Adam Lanza covered his bedroom walls in posters of guns and tanks and spent hours playing violent video games such as Call of Duty, according to reports."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2012/12/19/05/32/sandy-hook-gunman-lived-in-basement
01:34pm 19/12/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
16399 posts
they were blaming video games the day it happened.
01:45pm 19/12/12 Permalink
Fixah
Brisbane, Queensland
7177 posts
Obama the sly c*** goes on air crying (or at least pretending to) and condemns the school shooting but then orders drone strikes and kills 10 afghan children just a few days after. Not to mention the 150 children that got blown up to pieces by drone strikes in Pakistan. But obviously those children don't matter as much as American children so it's ok.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/156272_526909793995345_743542200_n.jpg
03:26pm 19/12/12 Permalink
Reverend Evil
Wynnum, Queensland
4511 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Inapprop. language/links
Send Private Message
04:46pm 19/12/12 Permalink
tHeBoRg
Gippsland, Victoria
100 posts
Sorry Rev but I don't see how the brutal deaths of 20 children is in any way or should be in any way made a joke of...

Some things should be off limits...
04:55pm 19/12/12 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
8743 posts
Sorry Rev but I don't see how the brutal deaths of 20 children is in any way or should be in any way made a joke of...

Some things should be off limits...
No, that's the type of thinking that should be kept off the internet.

Like people trying to criminalize the defacing of tribute pages, if you can't handle it, get off the internet.
05:03pm 19/12/12 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
2886 posts
If you can't handle people complaining about tasteless jokes on the internet you should get off the internet.
05:07pm 19/12/12 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4174 posts
not really a form of speech worth protecting
05:19pm 19/12/12 Permalink
d0mino
Melbourne, Victoria
5281 posts
Like people trying to criminalize the defacing of tribute pages, if you can't handle it, get off the internet.


As IF you aren't trolling.


05:33pm 19/12/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3828 posts
Fixah, I don't think it was intentional. But very sad indeed.
05:51pm 19/12/12 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3025 posts
02:55am 20/12/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2400 posts
I don't understand how the debate about video games didn't just start and end at the point made in the TYT video, that many other countries around the world play as much or more violent video games and they just don't have the shootings that the US has.

How is not any more clear than that?
03:13am 20/12/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
7060 posts
Obama the sly c*** goes on air crying (or at least pretending to) and condemns the school shooting but then orders drone strikes and kills 10 afghan children just a few days after. Not to mention the 150 children that got blown up to pieces by drone strikes in Pakistan. But obviously those children don't matter as much as American children so it's ok.

The war deaths are horrible, but there's no comparison between the intentional targeted murder of children without reason or purpose, and the casualties in the war with the Taliban and al Qaeda. The very people who they're fighting are going into schools and shooting, beheading, and poisoning students, yet that doesn't get a mention in your analysis of that situation?

If the Taliban did gain control of Pakistan, how many people do you think would die?
04:46am 20/12/12 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
3026 posts
I don't understand how the debate about video games didn't just start and end at the point made in the TYT video, that many other countries around the world play as much or more violent video games and they just don't have the shootings that the US has.How is not any more clear than that?

TYT don't have the audience to drive it home, refer to Malcom Turnbulls tweet at Rupert Murdoch on page one.
06:51am 20/12/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2401 posts
I didn't mean that people should get the point from that specific source, I just meant how has that line of reasoning not shot this whole thing down long ago... I guess as usual it all just comes down to looking for something easy to blame (just like the prank call suicide thing was).
09:18am 20/12/12 Permalink
Reverend Evil
Wynnum, Queensland
21159 posts
Awesome video Trauma. I always like hearing what totalbiscuit has to say about stuff. Plus there's something about his voice which makes listening so much easier.
09:32am 20/12/12 Permalink
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