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Poor choice of words by the BBC - Julia Gillard announces Royal Comm...
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21770 posts
http://i.imgur.com/1YUCb.png

ABC Online link

Good to see this happening. Church groups have gotten away with so much ridiculous s*** over the years. Will be good to see some senior figures face justice for their crimes.
07:12pm 12/11/12 Permalink
system
Internet
--
07:12pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34540 posts
yup, coudlnt agree more.

send all these sick f**** to jail, or drive them to hang themselves.
07:34pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2417 posts
Where's the pope in all this?
07:36pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6797 posts
Heh, I signed a petition for this earlier today, next I'm going to solve world hunger.

In all seriousness though, after the police report highlighting how the church was uniquely hiding behind its religious power to keep child rapists hidden from the law, Tony Abbott's "you must not unfairly investigate the Catholic Church on this" when to my knowledge his club is by far the worst, was just yet another reason to dislike him.
07:46pm 12/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21772 posts
Could you find a link that puts that Abbott quote in full context for me Nerf?
07:47pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13077 posts
I'm pretty sure Abbott was saying that the commission should be broader in scope, not just the Catholic church but other religious institutions. Seems reasonable to me, may as well out the lot of them.
07:54pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6798 posts
linky.
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says he'd support a "wide-ranging" commission that didn't focus solely on the Catholic Church.
"Any investigation should not be limited to the examination of any one institution," Mr Abbott, a high-profile Catholic, said in a statement.


Translation: "Don't bring attention to us for what we've been covering up for decades, I mean, we're the ones who the police have highlighted as a significantly more serious problem, but our image, think of our image if people knew that this was basically all launched in response to criminal bulls*** in the catholic church! We have to confuse things, so that people don't recognise the catholic church for what it's doing."
07:54pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13078 posts
For someone who gets so bloody uptight about people putting words in your mouth you're pretty ready to do it yourself Nerf.
07:55pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6799 posts
There's a difference between carrying on for months as you guys did over some fictionalised things which Door kept saying that I said, and being able to read between the lines, particularly on a very common worldwide problem where the behaviour has become depressingly predictable in a regular cult-like manner. Next you're going to tell me that I'm going too far in disbelieving that the ACL's "gays aren't natural" campaign isn't motivated by their bible cult.
08:03pm 12/11/12 Permalink
spidz
Brisbane, Queensland
11158 posts
Interesting translation there Nerf.

Looks to me like he was simply saying, 'hey, lets get all the sick f****, not just the Catholic ones'

But you run along now and make sure they investigate the pedo's that inherited money AND the Catholics!
08:05pm 12/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21773 posts
Hasn't the problem been directly linked with institutionalised cover ups from within the church in this case? I reckon the smartest course of action is to launch the commission against them and them alone. I don't think there was anything sinister behind his comments - just some token opposition to keep the partisans happy.
08:09pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4108 posts
yeah guys it's not just the catholics being investigated, i'm sure they'll chuck some jesuits in there too
08:09pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6800 posts
Interesting translation there Nerf.

Looks to me like he was simply saying, 'hey, lets get all the sick f****, not just the Catholic ones'

But you run along now and make sure they investigate the pedo's that inherited money AND the Catholics!

Lol. I have some snake oil to sell you if that's the extent of your ability to process his political speak.

Hasn't the problem been directly linked with institutionalised cover ups from within the church in this case?

Exactly. Now look at them squirm and try to move the revealing focus away.
08:09pm 12/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10688 posts
I agree with Abbott's reasoning. It would be wrong and somewhat discriminatory to isolate the investigation to the Catholic church. Any where this could be an issue should be scrutinised.
08:18pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34543 posts
this is one of those odd ocasions when tony abbott isnt a complete idiot.

all church denominations should be investigated, any organisation that had a systematic coverup of child abuse should be investigated.
08:22pm 12/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21774 posts
BAD ANALOGY ALERT

If there is a bushfire, and the fire-fighters fighting that bush fire are the royal commission wouldn't it be smartest for them to be deployed to where the bushfire is rather than to have some sent there and then others spread out into other areas where bus fires may be occurring or areas where bushfires can potentially occur? Sure, if other bushfires start more firemen can be deployed but surely the focus should be on the churches in this case.
08:29pm 12/11/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2330 posts
While I agree with the point of what he's saying, that this kind of investigation should extend beyond the Catholic Church, I think it would be very foolish to believe that he's doing it for completely altruistic and unselfish reasons.

It would make sense to first investigate the organisations where it has already been uncovered though. Continuing the bad analogy, deal with the fires that are big and obvious first then go looking for other fires instead of waiting for them to become just as big and damaging.
08:31pm 12/11/12 Permalink
spidz
Brisbane, Queensland
11159 posts
He was asked if he supports a royal commission.

His answer was yes, but it should be wide ranging.

fpots analogy is stupid, because we already know there are extensive bushfires in the Anglican Church, the Lutheran Church and also a bunch of private non denominational schools.

Have people forgotten about Governor General Peter Hollingsworth already? You know, the Archbishop who was forced to resign due to cover ups of sexual abuse..

I'll give you a hint, he's not Catholic!
08:53pm 12/11/12 Permalink
mental
Brisbane, Queensland
3608 posts
I don't understand the level of cover ups. Can understand the amount of peak priests in the past - where is the one place no one questions why you have no partner, position of power, etc. Sickening.

Shame religion isn't dying faster.
09:06pm 12/11/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
9538 posts
Anyone that covers up the sexual abuse of a child is just as guilty as the perp.

I hope they include the Boystown at Beaudesert.
60 minutes had a story on this earlier in the year.



09:34pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5422 posts
Where's the pope in all this?


The Vatican most likely.
09:49pm 12/11/12 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
2856 posts
I was thinking about this the other day with the news of the British TV host that was outed as a pedophile after his death, it seems that so many are either dead or very old by the time they are caught which is pretty depressing to think of the horrors they get away with for the majority of their lives.

The biggest problem does seem to be people who cover for them like with the Catholic Church supposedly going so far as to destroy evidence or people protecting that football coach in America just because he was a successful coach. I think they need to have some extremely harsh penalties for anyone found to be protecting a pedophile. Enabling a pedophile isn't far off from being one IMO.
09:51pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6801 posts
According to a psychologist who worked intimately with one of the catholic brotherhoods for years, at least 70% of them are suspected paedophiles. There was an ex priest who did an interview which I saw somewhere yesterday who said that the job basically attracts them, not creates them, because they get authoritarian credential-free access to kids.

edit: Oh, front page of reddit lol http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/12xvcy/former_australian_priest_comes_forward_on_child/
10:01pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4109 posts
what is reddit anyway
10:08pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6802 posts
A dangerous procrastination mess.

A detective talking about the uniqueness of the priest immunity situation here - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-09/officer-peter-fox-claims-catholic-church-covering-up-abuse/4362000
10:17pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6666 posts
what is reddit anyway
It's basically a forum/bulletin board with a few extra bells & whistles. The main draw is the community.
10:24pm 12/11/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
16176 posts
Where's the pope in all this?


the altar boy
10:56pm 12/11/12 Permalink
slamma
Perth, Western Australia
74 posts
Hopefully there's a lot of these scumbags thinking of ways to kill them selves right about now,save us the bulls*** about what to do with them.F*** with the young or elderly you deserve the worst possible justice available and that would be in jail with the general population,none of this confined imprisonment s*** so they wont be hurt.cheers
11:01pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13079 posts
Bush fire analogy is really terrible, this isn't an acute emergency it's a once in a generation investigation into cover up of institutional child abuse. It should be thorough and complete.

The idea that people with relevant information about Anglican or Lutheran or Government cover up would be turned away from the commission because we're only interested in Catholics right now seems beyond retarded, the sort of idea that would make sense to a truly delusional and warped mind.

I say lets crack this thing wide open and see what tries to scurry away.
11:12pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6668 posts
That's the plan anyway. Did everyone miss this part of the article?
"The Prime Minister said the commission would look at all religious organisations, state care providers, not-for-profit bodies as well as the responses of child service agencies and the police."
11:25pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6803 posts
People researching the matter have said that it's conservative to assume that Catholic abuses occur 6x as often as any sort of standard. I agree that we should go after all abusers, but that's not why the slimy 'almost became a catholic monk' Abbott pushed for it, at a guess, he did it to take the focus off of the worst organisation, because that particular cult has a powerful member in the Australian government right now, and I can't wait to see him go. The churches of Catholicism/Scientology/Mormonism/etc are all running the same racket and always have been, and this is an example of why they should be kept away from the political process.
11:26pm 12/11/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19270 posts
Please don't call Nerfy out on his behaviour you just get an angry response.

Of course the investigation should cover all institutional abuse.

The Federal Government could start by reopening their investigation into the Heiner Affair that Kevin Rudd and Labor covered up.
11:27pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6804 posts
Please don't call Nerfy out on his behaviour you just get an angry response.

Oh jesus.

Of course the investigation should cover all institutional abuse.

Point to one person who said otherwise?
11:33pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13080 posts
Point to one person who said otherwise?

F*** you're a piece of work.
11:42pm 12/11/12 Permalink
csirac
Brisbane, Queensland
2774 posts
We'll see how comprehensive the Terms of Reference is. It'll be a shame that a RC is started but is basically crippled by s*** terms.
11:50pm 12/11/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2332 posts
Isn't the intention already to investigate more than just the Catholic Church?

From the OP article:
The Prime Minister said the commission would look at all religious organisations, state care providers, not-for-profit bodies as well as the responses of child service agencies and the police.
12:08am 13/11/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5423 posts
Isn't the intention already to investigate more than just the Catholic Church?

Yeah but Tony Abbott may not have read the memo, even if he claimed he did before claiming he's not sure.
12:19am 13/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6805 posts
Yep, it was announced as such. The problem was that Abbott used weasel words to say that he wouldn't support it if it drew attention to the fact that the Catholic church is basically the whole reason for this, many times worse than any other known case. This is not the Catholics' first hoorah into this, and he almost certainly wanted the truth to be muddled by making it as wide and untargeted from the main reason for it happening in the first place as possible (the international Catholic coverup of unparalleled paedophilia within its ranks).

The conservative opposition leader, Tony Abbott, who once trained to be a Catholic priest, said earlier on Monday he would support a "wide-ranging" commission that did not focus solely on the Catholic church. "Any investigation should not be limited to the examination of any one institution," he said in a statement.

Last time that a population got a whiff of what the Catholic church has actually been doing internationally behind the scenes on a scale like nobody else, they were correctly booted out of the country.
12:37am 13/11/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34547 posts
I was thinking about this the other day with the news of the British TV host that was outed as a pedophile after his death, it seems that so many are either dead or very old by the time they are caught which is pretty depressing to think of the horrors they get away with for the majority of their lives.


louis theroux had his (sir) jimmy saville ep on last nite on abc.

that man (jimmy, not louis) was a bizare man.

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/when-louis-met-jimmy-20121112-297tg.html

last edited by Spook at 06:10:35 13/Nov/12
06:07am 13/11/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7492 posts
Just start with the CC, and seize any assets of organisations found guilty. Give the rest 12mo to dob in any of their own, then they get the same treatment.
Anything to reduce the sight of pedophilia palaces on every major street and small town.
08:06am 13/11/12 Permalink
spidz
Brisbane, Queensland
11160 posts
The conservative opposition leader, Tony Abbott, who once trained to be a Catholic priest, said earlier on Monday he would support a "wide-ranging" commission that did not focus solely on the Catholic church. "Any investigation should not be limited to the examination of any one institution," he said in a statement.


Nerf.

Do you seriously disagree with this statement?

Or are you just blinded by hatred of the person making it?

Leaving aside your huge assumptions on the mans motive, so sane human being would actually disagree with his statement, surely?

"Lets investigate ALL pedos, not just catholic ones"

OMG OMG, what a crazy thought!
10:20am 13/11/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5424 posts
Occam's razor says Tony Abbott is just stating something obvious but Nerfy's razor says Tony Abbott is part of an evil catholic church conspiracy cover up and investigating it would unravel the entire institution right up to the pope!

Somebody call Dan Brown quick.
10:43am 13/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13084 posts
Stop twisting his words guys, its not a good look.
10:56am 13/11/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5426 posts
Well it's no use asking clarifying questions like spidz did because that's just being slippery.
12:31pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13088 posts
To be honest more open terms of reference can't really help their cause anyway.

If the Catholic Church is unique in its complicity to cover up molesters then this should hopefully be borne out by the investigation, and remove any 'witch hunt' (<<< is that Alannis ironing?) excuse if the findings are damning of the Church in particular?
12:36pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6806 posts
Jesus spidz and hog, how many times have I said that I don't disagree with that? I have no idea what's wrong with some of your abilities to comprehend what's being said, don't know why I even try.
12:41pm 13/11/12 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
2861 posts
Politics can f*** up anything it seems, even the unanimous agreement that pedophiles are bad.

People are either trying to twist s*** around so it seems Tony Abbott wants to protect the Church like the way they protect pedophiles or they are trying to imply that people pointing out Tony Abbott's obvious bias towards the Catholic Church are saying that all other non-Church pedophiles should be ignored and allowed to roam free.

Both arguments are pretty f*****g retarded.
12:54pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13089 posts
Jesus spidz and hog, how many times have I said that I don't disagree with that? I have no idea what's wrong with some of your abilities to comprehend what's being said, don't know why I even try.

How many times are you going to accuse people of poor comprehension before you start to wonder if just maybe your message is broken? I even predicted you'd bust out this tired old line and here it is anyway!

Instead of crying ad nauseum about comprehension how about you answer spidz' nice and simple questions. Given that you agree with them, what's wrong with Abbott's statements, aside from the fact that your bias against him turns you into some sort of bizarro world infi? What does the Church possibly gain by a broader scope of inquiry if they are uniquely complicit, and what hoodwink is Abbott trying to pull in your delusional, paranoid worldview?
01:22pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6807 posts
answer spidz' nice and simple questions.

Hog, your "smug retard" is showing, yet once again. All of those questions are asking why I hold positions which I've already said that I don't. "Nice and simple questions" only in your lack of reading comprehension world. Others were able to understand what I was saying, not so amazingly it was only you same smug tools with no reading comprehension doing this yet again.
01:28pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13090 posts
Answer the f*****g questions or shut up.
02:03pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Mantorok
Brisbane, Queensland
6669 posts
02:06pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6808 posts
Oh look, Cardinal Pell is whining:http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-13/pell-accuses-press-of-exaggerating-catholic-abuse/4369214

I like how after decades of the Catholic church not submitting one single report to the police with accusations many times higher than anywhere else, and reports of Pell refusing to hear witnesses when they were children, and even supposedly standing by while one was beaten, he's apparently now seen the light and "of course welcomes the investigation" once it was forced on him.

Answer the f*****g questions or shut up.

I honestly can't believe that you're not trolling me any more.
02:30pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13092 posts
I honestly can't believe that you're not trolling me any more.

Why won't you (can't you?) answer? I'm not trolling you. You annoy the living s*** out of me, but there is no troll here Nerf.
02:34pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6809 posts
Why won't you (can't you?) answer? I'm not trolling you. You annoy the living s*** out of me, but there is no troll here Nerf.

Definitely trolling, or unable to read.
02:41pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13093 posts
I guess I won this round, since you're so far backed into a corner all you have are accusations of trolling and random lame insults like 'smug retard'?
02:46pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6810 posts
'smug retard'

I answered your question, you completely ignored it, and started jeering again pretending that I hadn't. "Smug Retard" is the only way to describe what's wrong with you, if you're not actually trolling.

When you're just out to "win", you ruin the internet for everybody else. I love to discuss and argue, but a few of you guys (a small group who seem an exclusive type of retard which is unique to Ausgamers, from the years that I've spent on the net) only ever straw man. In one thread "I hate wealth creators" despite constantly saying that I don't, in another I "don't think that a wider enquiry would be good", when I've repeatedly said that I do. Go away and come back when you can read.
02:57pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13095 posts
Yep, there's no better way to put it. I answered your question, you completely ignored it, and started jeering again pretending that I hadn't

If I missed it then I apologise! But can you point out where you answered this:
If the Catholic Church is unique in its complicity to cover up molesters then this should hopefully be borne out by the investigation, and remove any 'witch hunt' (<<< is that Alannis ironing?) excuse if the findings are damning of the Church in particular?

It was a non-smug, non aggressive question. You just refused to answer it as far as I can tell. Check the thread, your reaction was completely over the top.

I still don't understand how you reconcile your remarks in this thread. You claim to agree with Abbott's suggestion that the inquiry not be limited to the church, but accuse him and the church of an ulterior motive in widening the terms of the inquiry. This doesn't seem to stand up to reason as if the inquiry is broad but the Church is shown to be uniquely complicit (as you assert) then it will surely be worse for them if everyone is op en to investigation and they are orders of magnitude worse?

Everything you have posted after my question quoted above was a foaming froth of f*** you hog as far as I can see? I don't like you at all Nerf, and you annoy me a lot, and I point out how, but I don't randomly insult you? On a more personal note, please don't call me a retard dude, I know (hope?) you didn't mean or realise it, but its probably the worst insult you can hurl at someone with M.S.

I'm happy to talk about the topic if you get it together and stop the random insults?
03:18pm 13/11/12 Permalink
mental
Brisbane, Queensland
3615 posts
Are you both going to the xmas party? Can we place bets, I know who my money will back!
03:26pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13097 posts
Are you both going to the xmas party? Can we place bets, I know who my money will back!

Nah they chose the wrong bloody date for it.
03:28pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4111 posts
haven't you heard hogfather, retard is a general purpose insult now

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/26/ann-coulter-retard_n_2022621.html
03:41pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6811 posts
If I missed it then I apologise!

Good. Now here's the answer for the n'th time: All of those questions by Spidz were asking why I hold positions which I've already said that I don't. Several times in the thread I said that I agree that a wider enquiry is probably a good thing, yet you guys came out with "Why are you against a wider enquiry?" "I said that I'm for it" "Oh just cant' answer the question hahar!" Learn to read, you guys do this across multiple threads - always the same people who are absolutely a******* to deal with on here.

But can you point out where you answered this:

I never tried to answer that, it wasn't even there when I opened the thread for my response. I was responding to what you and spidz were saying to/about me.

You claim to agree with Abbott's suggestion that the inquiry not be limited to the church, but accuse him and the church of an ulterior motive in widening the terms of the inquiry.

Yes, now you're getting it. Perhaps you can't process the nuance because you seemingly have no understanding of the history with this topic.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/opinion/archbishop-george-pell-needs-to-man-up-and-deal-with-churchs-paedophiles/story-fn34ojzj-1226515310536 "In the face of the latest horrific allegations of systemic child abuse and cover-ups in the Catholic Church he has cried, by turns, "It wasn't me", and "They did it, too"."

http://theconversation.edu.au/church-and-state-oppose-a-royal-commission-at-the-expense-of-clergys-victims-10627

http://freethinker.co.uk/2012/11/12/cardinal-pell-flip-flops-over-royal-commision-into-clerical-sexual-abuse/

It's just constant attempts at wriggling to get the attention off of them. It's well known institutionalised international catholic behaviour, on a scale like none other. The whole enquiry is largely in response to this, and Abbott's "I'll only support it if you take attention off my church which is by far the worst by several times over" was extremely slimy, typical stuff of an international organisation that has made a whole sophisticated culture out of covering up child abuse (and thus why police currently need this particular commission's powers to deal with it), which is a recurring international issue due to just how bad the catholic church is. It's like a member of a slimy super white supremacist organisation coming out and "supporting" an intervention in aboriginal communities due to alcohol abuse and child rape - sure the intervention might be agreeable, but it's fair to facepalm knowing that the organisation member almost certainly has a much uglier stance and motive.

The reason for Abbott arguing for what he did is well understood by anybody familiar with the topic, hence why most journalists highlighted it.
My concerns are that a wider ranging Royal Commission, against the backdrop of other scenario, will simply once again dilute the seriousness and criminality of these particular religious perpetrators and cloud the reality that sex abuse of children has become a career path for paedophiles who enter the Church to simply join this elite and privileged all-male club to enjoy the spoils of young meat.”

You can bet your ass that Abbott would have never called for the Carmody Commission to be wider ranging, if it were a federal one. Perhaps listen to the people who have actually been religious and know how these 'protect the divine cult' mindsets and cultures work, this took decades to get to the point of being able to stop the rape of children and Pell and Abbott haven't helped a step along the way, and are now both trying to deflect it with the standard Catholic line of "well, others are bad too" when the Catholic church is extraordinary bad like none other.

please don't call me a retard dude, I know (hope?) you didn't mean or realise it, but its probably the worst insult you can hurl at someone with M.S.

I won't, but I of course didn't mean it that way under the clinical definition.
03:44pm 13/11/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
9540 posts
“There was one priest in Victoria who admitted when caught that he had confessed 200 times and nobody had reported him, because priests are not allowed to report anyone who confesses in a confessional."

Priests are not subject to mandatory reporting laws so they don't have to report child abusers who confess to them. Generally, a priest who receives such a confession is meant to convince the abuser to report themselves to authorities.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/news/child-sex-abuse-not-the-biggest-sin-and-confession-gives-a-clean-slate-pedophile-priests-believe/story-e6frfkor-1226515833723#ixzz2C4j8GLQj

Pell claims hes never moved CONVICTED pedophiles.
That detective was saying he'd shown Pell evidence of 4 pedos and Pell refused to do anything untill they'd been found guilty in a court of law.

So you have... pedo -> molests child -> confesses to a priest - priest absolves him - repeat:
No Priest will report a pedo if they confess the sin.

also mentioned in the above article is that priests cant have sex with a woman but they arent breaking celibacy laws by having sex with children.



last edited by FaceMan at 15:58:30 13/Nov/12
03:57pm 13/11/12 Permalink
spidz
Brisbane, Queensland
11161 posts
I've already pointed out your massive hypocrisy and inability to see past your own hatred.

You freely admit to agreeing with what Abbott has said, but feel the need to make assumptions and assertions about why he would say it. Despite what he said being freely agreed to by nearly every sane person available to comment.

If that isn't an example of blind hatred and an inabiity to look at something in a balanced way, then I don;t know what is?

Its like 'hey man, I agree with what he is saying, but my reason for agreeing is like totally different to his reason for saying it!'

It's borderline insanity.

The balanced view would be 'hey, I think Abbott is f*****g nonce, but on this rare occassion, I totally agree with him'

Because I think Gillard is a complete f*****g moron trollop, but in this case I'm f*****g stoked she has ordered the RC into child abuse and agree wholeheartedly with her comments and policy on the subject.
04:09pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6812 posts
Except most who are familiar with Catholic behaviour don't buy it for a second spidz, and you obviously haven't been paying attention to history nor that nearly every journalist immediately recognised the same problem with Abbott's "conditional agreement" as I did, to say that I'm alone in this reading between the very obvious lines is just wilfully denying reality.

As somebody elsewhere on the net pointed out, no commission into a boarding school or corporate case as bad as this would have been "widened" to have no specific mentioned target. The very fact that this commission has been (when the police were only ever expressing concern over the catholic church's role in thwarting the law) - that Gillard's announcement couldn't even name the target - is an indication of just how disturbingly powerful that cult really is.
04:14pm 13/11/12 Permalink
spidz
Brisbane, Queensland
11162 posts
I pay plenty of attention to the cult of religion, be it Catholic, Protestant, Muslim or any other fairy tale that mind f**** people into stupidity. I dislike all religion and freely say so at every opportunity.

I also acknowledge that Abbott, Swan, Rudd & Howard among many others are quite fervently religious, and in my view Howard was the worst of that lot in terms of how he allowed it to cloud his decision making.

Despite Abbott clearly being quite devout, considering he looked at potentially becomeing a Priest - I think he has done reaosnably well since his days as Health Minister at managing to put aside his personal/religious view when making policy decisions. Almost like 'I don't agree, but I can see that the will of most people is different to mine, so we'll take our policy direction in that way' Must be hard for someone so enshrined in the cult. I think Howard and Rudd were less successful at doing so.

What you're referring to as a 'conditional agreement' was actually just a statement that there should definitely be an enquiry, and it should be all encompassing.

I know plenty of people who are devout Catholics, despite appearing to be normal intelligent people in every other way, just as I know others who are quite involved in other denominations of church. I am forever making quips at them about kiddy fiddling, and it clearly makes them uncomfortable and they literally have no defence. It must be hard for people to be so brainwashed that they get uncomfortable in this situation, have no defence for it - yet still believe so strongly in the fairytale they've been fed.

You're one step short of stating that Abbot wants to protect the Church at all costs, which would almost make him complicit in what went on. I personally think that is a very long bow to draw and has no basis in fact, other than your gross assumption about his motives for a statement you agree with,

Rather ironic that yesterday Ed Cowan dedicated his maiden test century to Peter Roebuck, on the day a Royal Commission is announced into child abuse.
04:48pm 13/11/12 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2222 posts
At the risk of becoming embroiled in a war of words, I think what Nerf is trying to say is that while a RC is welcomed, Abbott (as a Catholic) may be trying to divert some of the spotlight and negative connotation away from the Catholic Church and point out that all religious institutions should be investigated.

The question is this: is Abbott's motive to deflect attention away from the well-known and documented issues that lie specifically within the Catholic Church by suggesting the RC be thrown open to include all religions? Or is he being altruistic and holistically minded in his crusade to stamp out sexual abuse in religious institutions across the board?

Nerf you are making assumptions about Abbott's motives, but given that he is a massive douchebag, they may be not entirely unfounded. However, it's hard to know whether he is trying to dilute what him and other Catholics most likely see as demonising the Catholic Church and portraying it as the poster child for sexual abuse, or simply running out statements in an attempt to score political points against Gillard by pointing out her RC isn't as far reaching as it should be.

The question should be what is going to yield the best results.* Should there be a RC into the Catholic Church and subsequent or parallel RCs into each of the other accused institutions? By having separate RCs is the focus and rigour going to yield a better result for the victims? Or is lumping them all in together and dealing with the issue on multiple fronts simultaneously problematic and unnecessarily complex and ultimately at cross purposes with the desired outcomes. If the instances of abuse don't run across multiple institutes and the issues are not necessarily interconnected, shouldn't each institute/set of circumstances be tried individually? Or is a RC an all-encompassing "report" always designed to describe a national issue? I seem to remember RC into police corruption being National, so maybe that's how they roll.

I should say I have no idea of the intricacies of RCs and the way in which they are conducted so feel free to enlighten me.

last edited by IncrEdible_vEgetable at 17:02:02 13/Nov/12
04:58pm 13/11/12 Permalink
spidz
Brisbane, Queensland
11163 posts
Gillard's RC is as far reaching as it should be. Its all encompassing and that is a good thing.

Before Gillard announced it, Abbott was asked a direct question - do you support a RC into child abuse in the Catholic Church.

His response was simple.

"Yes I do, but I think it should be into all institutional abuse, not just the Catholic Church"

If you were to ask that question of most fair minded Australians, I reckon you would get the same answer. But apparently Abbott doesn't qualify for the benefit of the doubt, because like millions of others, he is Catholic
05:34pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5427 posts
Abbott also said "A lot of people have suffered deeply, a lot of terrible things have been done and, look, the Catholic Church, my own church, has a lot to answer for,". (paywalled, but google the quote to see the full article)

It makes me feel dirty defending Tony Abbott, but infering his statements were a deliberate Catholic church cult conspiracy to divert attention away is a bit over the top. Save your disdain for the apologizer Cardinal Pell, he's more deserving of it than Tony Abbott when it comes to child sex abuse scandals.
06:00pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6813 posts
There was no political option for Abbott to do anything but agree with the inquiry at this point. The point is discussed here. The Catholic Church was the whole reason for this inquiry, it's the one which the police were saying that they needed these exclusive powers for, it's the only one with a known target painted on its back for obstructionism, and this is part of a specific larger catholic/vatican-culture problem being faced all over the world. Widening the scope is almost certainly only being done due to the catholic church being so powerful, even Gillard won't take a position which would anger the powerful religious groups on gay rights, and seemingly wouldn't publicly state what this was really about.

Given Abbott's comments on 'virginity' being the greatest gift which a female has to offer the world, on abortion being 'the easy way out' for weak people, him almost becoming a monk himself, suggest that he is much more than any 'cultural' non-practising catholic. I would bet money that he'd have said the opposite if somebody suggested extending any other royal commission beyond whatever boarding school or corporation was involved, and I'd also bet money that in those cases, the perpetrators would be named and moved on far faster. Yes, I also have really close catholic friends, and have even lived with them. I don't treat every catholic as a cult defender, but I would a thousand times easier assume Abbott being one given his actions. All in all Abbott has a terrible debt built up against him for what he's said, so there's not much reason to give him the benefit of the doubt now. :P

Save your disdain for the apologizer Cardinal Pell, he's more deserving of it than Tony Abbott when it comes to child sex abuse scandals.

I agree with this though. My point was only ever that Abbott's response to conditionally support this were very typical of "divert the blame" behaviour.

The guy who blew the whistle earlier says that his wife's had a nervous breakdown after continuous threatening letters, and talks about the catholic obstruction and weasel words for this specific investigation.
06:13pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34552 posts
you big silly's feeding the nerf
06:15pm 13/11/12 Permalink
spidz
Brisbane, Queensland
11164 posts
The Catholic Church was the whole reason for this inquiry, it's the one which the police were saying that they needed these exclusive powers for, it's the only one with a known target painted on its back for obstructionism, and this is part of a specific larger catholic/vatican-culture problem being faced all over the world.


Quite simply incorrect and untrue.

The Anglican Church has had the same issues. Archbishop Peter Hollingsworth was removed from offiuce as Governor General for obstructionism.
10:45am 14/11/12 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3539 posts
Quite simply incorrect and untrue.

The Anglican Church has had the same issues. Archbishop Peter Hollingsworth was removed from offiuce as Governor General for obstructionism.


spidz, can you keep any non-catholic abuse references out of this thread, we are only interested in the catholic church. the other institutions harboring and protecting abusers are not as important as going after the one that is associated with Tony Abbott.

< nerf lord world >
11:01am 14/11/12 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
8309 posts
Where's that f*****g Chrome plugin that removes peoples posts?
11:08am 14/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6816 posts
Quite simply incorrect and untrue.

The Anglican Church has had the same issues. Archbishop Peter Hollingsworth was removed from offiuce as Governor General for obstructionism.

So police were able to deal with that one and thus never called for a royal inquiry? Look, the fact of the matter is that detectives and victims calling for this were doing so because of the unique catholic culture, the rates several times higher in the catholic church, and specific cases known that need followups. I'm glad for them to extend the net and get as many as possible, but it also dilutes the possibility of taking on the catholic church as a dramatically worse offender and international problem in this, and draws attention from how much of a problem they uniquely are.

spidz, can you keep any non-catholic abuse references out of this thread, we are only interested in the catholic church. the other institutions harboring and protecting abusers are not as important as going after the one that is associated with Tony Abbott.

Why create these bizaro straw man worlds that are enormously different from what I've very clearly explained as my reasoning? That doesn't even make sense.
02:37pm 14/11/12 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3540 posts
The opposition in Australian politics has an important role in suggesting alternatives or improvements to government initiatives. You seem to think that Tony Abbott in this case should have suggested something other than an improvement to the government's suggestion?

I am no fan of the Catholic church, or the Anglican Church, or any church really, and I hold no great love for Tony Abbott either but on this one i agree with him. if someone came up to me and asked, "what do you think about the government's proposed commission into child abuse and subsequent cover ups in the catholic church?" I would reply, "sound good but why just investigate the catholic church and not all the others as well?"

You would then promptly infer that this is my way of trying to cover up or bury in the noise of other institutions misdeeds the misdeeds of the Catholic church when in reality, it is just that I want them all to get what they have coming to them instead of just the big one.
03:14pm 14/11/12 Permalink
spidz
Brisbane, Queensland
11167 posts
Interestingly, Tony Abbott has today come out and said that evidence of abuse uncovered in 'confession' should be reported by priests, despite this being strongly at odds with Catholic faith and the nature of confessions.

I wonder what his ulterior motive in that one is?
03:25pm 14/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6817 posts
Ah jesus christ, you guys are hopeless at arguing any actual point made. Again, he had no choice but to agree with the investigation, I was just pointing out how typical of catholic blame dodging it was to add conditions such as "Any investigation should not be limited to the examination of any one institution". Again, the police and victims were only talking about the catholic church, it's only the politicians who have had to avoid naming it. The attorney general has no problem highlighting who and what this is actually about: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-14/roxon-begins-consultations-on-royal-commission/4370498

I now that paedophiles exist in other churches, I had a not so bad run in with one myself. But the catholic issue is a unique global problem that needs to be addressed clearly.
03:35pm 14/11/12 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3542 posts
Again, he had no choice but to agree with the investigation, I was just pointing out how typical of catholic blame dodging it was to add conditions such as "Any investigation should not be limited to the examination of any one institution".


do you think it should be limited to 1 institution? is that what you are saying? because to me, doing them all at the same time seems like a much better outcome.
04:30pm 14/11/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1250 posts
Where's that f*****g Chrome plugin that removes peoples posts?
HERE! HERE! Oh god a thousand times here!

Thanks Dahzel

although I cant figure out how to add multiple users
04:43pm 14/11/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5430 posts
Comma separated & case sensitive eski: capital N, capital L
06:37pm 14/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6819 posts
do you think it should be limited to 1 institution? is that what you are saying?

Serious? Half the thread was just dedicated to repeating "No" to that question to the people who couldn't read before you.

I love my fans, you always know the same ones are going to show up. The same butthurt people since the climate change thread.
07:29pm 14/11/12 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3543 posts
Serious? Half the thread was just dedicated to repeating "No" to that question to the people who couldn't read before you.


so now you are agreeing with tony abbott?
06:13am 15/11/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19274 posts
Great move by Tony, it will put a lot of pressure on the Church.
09:06am 15/11/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
16189 posts
so now you are agreeing with tony abbott?


he agrees with abbot but believes abbot has ulterior motives
10:37am 15/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6832 posts
http://i.imgur.com/TZdal.jpg

Aaand the cult raising money from those who it indoctrinated, to spend hundreds of thousands defending those who are already convicted from further cases - http://www.theage.com.au/national/church-funding-paedophiles-legal-defence-20121115-29evv.html
03:58am 16/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21821 posts
Pell named in sexual abuse inquiryThis reminds me of the time a religious leader has been accused of hushing up sexual abuse claims. Anyone else remember the time that happened?

edit: I suck at HTML
01:55pm 23/11/12 Permalink
Crusher
Sydney, New South Wales
1213 posts
South Park episode comes to mind here..

What is really sad about this is that a church should have been one of the safest places to leave children in the care of others... now it seems like its one of the most dangerous.

last edited by Crusher at 08:49:11 26/Nov/12
08:47am 26/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6887 posts
What is really sad about this is that a church should have been one of the safest places to leave children in the care of others... now it seems like its one of the most dangerous.last edited by Crusher at 08:49:11 26/Nov/12

Even if they weren't doing this, they would still be superstitious witchdoctors indoctrinating kids. :/

I grew up in a church crèche, school, and scouts group, before anybody jumps on me about tolerating such things or sprouts some stupid new age hippy s***. /rargh
09:03am 26/11/12 Permalink
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