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Talking Draenor with Ion Hazzikostas
Marijuana legalised in Colorado
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10648 posts
Adults may now use the mary j, da chronic, da hashish, the mean green, da bomb in the state of Colorado in the USA.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/06/amendment-64-passes-in-co_n_2079899.html

The Rocky Mountain High just got a whole lot higher. On Tuesday night, Amendment 64 -- the measure which sought the legalization of marijuana for recreational use by adults -- was passed by Colorado voters, making Colorado the first state to end marijuana prohibition in the United States.


I suspect that Stan, Kyle, Kenny and Cartman will soon be raiding Stan's dad's stash of hash.
04:05pm 07/11/12 Permalink
system
Internet
--
04:05pm 07/11/12 Permalink
IncrEdible_vEgetable
Brisbane, Queensland
2204 posts
America - getting better by the minute.
04:22pm 07/11/12 Permalink
bepatient
Melbourne, Victoria
1110 posts
Thats good news. Should be regulated much the same way as alcohol. Freedom of choice peeps, freedom of choice.
04:24pm 07/11/12 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
845 posts
04:28pm 07/11/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
10423 posts
Also Washington state, which is quite close to Vancouver in Canada, also passed a similar law.
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/11/washington_measure_502_marijua.html
04:30pm 07/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13043 posts
Looks like Washington passed it too, 55-45 with half the vote done http://edition.cnn.com/election/2012/results/state/WA/ballot/02

The Feds might have been able to get away with stomping on a lone rebel state but if a few legalise it then things will be more interesting.
04:30pm 07/11/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1239 posts
I wonder if the feds will shut it down like they did medical marijuana in california...
04:34pm 07/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13044 posts
I wonder if the feds will shut it down like they did medical marijuana in california...

Medical dope is actually legal in 17 states, the feds haven't really stopped it. This is a first though as we're talking about recreational usage now with state production and taxation.
04:37pm 07/11/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
16141 posts
I suspect that Stan, Kyle, Kenny and Cartman will soon be raiding Stan's dad's stash of hash.


yeah they could do a sequel to that medical marijuana episode.
04:41pm 07/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21728 posts
How do you get the ball rolling with this sort of thing in Oz? I suppose the first step is to get it legalised in a medicinal sense and then hopefully the evolves to it being legal in every sense.
04:57pm 07/11/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
10424 posts
could join the HEMP party ?

I dunno, they seem amateur
04:59pm 07/11/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
9511 posts
7:30 has a story last night on ppl addicted to Ibubrofen and Codeine.
Hard to understand why Pot is banned and that damaging s*** is available to anyone over the counter.



05:02pm 07/11/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
10425 posts
Not to mention people injecting bath salts and s***, what the hell

If you were stoned you wouldn't be bothered.
05:04pm 07/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13046 posts
How do you get the ball rolling with this sort of thing in Oz? I suppose the first step is to get it legalised in a medicinal sense and then hopefully the evolves to it being legal in every sense.

We're actually further down the road in a lot of respects. Most states already have mandatory diversionary programs and are moving towards decriminalisation of consumer amounts with on the spot fines.

The key though imo is the untapped tax revenue. Governments need to tax and taxation on marijuana is a huge untapped source of money for the government. Our social policies are still heavily skewed to conservatism because old people are conservative in nature and we have lots of old people.

Like gay marriage it will probably happen without fuss once the baby boomers die out.
05:06pm 07/11/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3112 posts
I admit i know f*** all about MJ but AFAIK i dont think MJ has a higher risk of harm than the possible side effects of alcohol, cigarettes and drugs.

7:30 has a story last night on ppl addicted to Ibubrofen and Codeine.

I work in a pharmacy as a few of you probably call, and it s**** me off the people that come in every f*****g week to purchase maximum quantities of codeine containing drugs - generally panadeine, nurofen plus, or panadeine extra (or equivalent generics). I understand there are legitimate users but im talking about the druggo looking motherf*****s whose file has nothing but codeine purchases for weeks/months on end. Ibuprofen + codeine is a max of 30 tabs (5 days supply @ max dose of 6 per day) while paracetamol + codeine is a max of 40 tabs (5 days supply @ max dose of 8 per day). So every week they come in for a new box knowing there is f*** all we can do to stop them purchasing them. And of course the boss doesnt wanna turn em away cause he/she knows they will just go to another store.
05:53pm 07/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21729 posts
Isn't there some simple at home process involving cold water or something that allows you to get opium out of codeine tablets?

To be honest, legalised marijuana wouldn't make a huge difference to my friend. My friend has a friend who always has it and delivers to his house. I wonder if it being legal would make it expensive or cheaper. If I was a commercial entity I would be looking to take advantage of the high black market prices and maybe sell it for slightly less. What the government wants to take in tax would probably dictate the price though.
06:35pm 07/11/12 Permalink
Superform
Netherlands
7580 posts
watched an doco that had the fun fact that in 1920 there was approx .2% of the population who were addicted to heroin - in 2010 is is still .2% of the population..

there will always be people who take drugs.. education, care and rehabilitation is money better spent then in guns and violence

08:34pm 07/11/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3798 posts
so if it was legalised for recreational use here in aus, I'd be raging if I was locked up for trafficking or posession prior to it being legalised.
08:36pm 07/11/12 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4624 posts
Our social policies are still heavily skewed to conservatism because old people are conservative in nature and we have lots of old people.


Not only that, we've got international treaties to keep that prohibits the legalization of weed. America legalizing it is a massive step forward in regards to our obligations.
08:37pm 07/11/12 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
6962 posts
legaliseeeee it
09:56pm 07/11/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17470 posts
and cocaine while we're at it plz
10:02pm 07/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10650 posts
First you have to get medicinal cocaine legalised paveway.
10:06pm 07/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21733 posts
I think it already is as an anesthetic.
10:11pm 07/11/12 Permalink
Murderer
Tasmania
1994 posts
Ive watched as much of American Weed and Weed wars.

They are both a good watch.
10:49pm 07/11/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13105 posts

Isn't there some simple at home process involving cold water or something that allows you to get opium out of codeine tablets?


Maybe after using strong acids/bases, perhaps with a pressure reactor, distilling and whatnot. Those home-made pressure reactors...
11:09pm 07/11/12 Permalink
Bah
Brisbane, Queensland
4821 posts
Or google.
11:12pm 07/11/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
9512 posts
My friend has a friend who always has it and delivers to his house.


A Friend with Weed
is a Friend Indeed.
11:59pm 07/11/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13106 posts

A friend in need's a friend indeed.
A friend with weed is better.

12:15am 08/11/12 Permalink
ctd
UK
10146 posts
Im with paveway. Medicinal cocaine and md plz.
12:23am 08/11/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2319 posts
could join the HEMP party ?

I dunno, they seem amateur

They seemed fine to me!
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090602211241/en.futurama/images/c/c2/Dudes_For_The_Legalation_Of_Of_Hemp.JPG

Dave's not here, man.
12:49am 08/11/12 Permalink
Karmadelik
Brisbane, Queensland
178 posts
im totally against this. Problematic mental health in aus is growing more rapidly now than 10 years ago... what do you think will happen if pots legalised?
11:17am 08/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13052 posts
im totally against this. Problematic mental health in aus is growing more rapidly now than 10 years ago... what do you think will happen if pots legalised?

So you're saying that because it can make some people who are sick worse that it should remain illegal?

Sorry not buying that, healthy adults should be free to make their own decisions, and the freedoms of the people shouldn't be shackled by outliers. We don't ban alcohol because it adds to the metabolic syndrome epidemic - a problem about an order of magnitude worse.

And what about the sick people smoking dope helps, they don't count?

If anything, removing the illegality may make proper treatment more accessible as people will be less inclined to lie about their usage to health practioners.
11:26am 08/11/12 Permalink
redhat
Sydney, New South Wales
847 posts
what do you think will happen if pots legalised?


Probably the same people that smoke it now will continue to smoke it and those that don't will continue not to.

The state will have more tax revenue for health programs and we will have less dodgey people peddling the stuff laced with other crap to make it weigh more.
11:43am 08/11/12 Permalink
Karmadelik
Brisbane, Queensland
179 posts
I'm against complete legalization, but I guess for medicinal reasons it has its purpose. Altough I think that for medicinal use there should be more research into how it affects the body, and then how to recreate the effect without the physical/mental harm.
I think its unfair to compare alcohol to pot. Yes I agree alcohol can be more damaging than pot, but you cant exactly get rid of alochol from our society... pot you can (atleast get away with making it illegal).

On an unrelated note, Hogfather do you support euthanasia?
11:50am 08/11/12 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
8717 posts
Isn't there some simple at home process involving cold water or something that allows you to get opium out of codeine tablets?
Cold water extraction, codeine is significantly more soluble than paracetamol/ibuprofen in water.

Turns out I'm one of the ~10% that can't really metabolize codeine properly so it doesn't do anything for me, even in super large doses.

there is f*** all we can do to stop them purchasing them
Why do you even care?
12:06pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13053 posts
I think its unfair to compare alcohol to pot. Yes I agree alcohol can be more damaging than pot, but you cant exactly get rid of alochol from our society... pot you can (atleast get away with making it illegal).

How has prohibition affected usage of pot? Is there a realistic expectation of 'removing it from our society', and how is the efficacy of prohibition being measured? We've tried for quite a few decades now, assuming that its not working at what point do we give the other option a go?

As far as I can tell it just makes money for bikies, removes a revenue stream, makes criminals out of sick people and fills our courts with relatively minor offenses.
then how to recreate the effect without the physical/mental harm

What harm are we talking about?
On an unrelated note, Hogfather do you support euthanasia?

I'm a rational human being, so that's a yes, with the appropriate regulatory structure.
12:08pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13108 posts

Cold water extraction, codeine is significantly more soluble than paracetamol/ibuprofen in water.


However there will be lots of impurities such as lactose, magnesium sterate, maybe some starch, a bit of povidone and so forth. Far from pure.
12:24pm 08/11/12 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
8718 posts
However there will be lots of impurities such as lactose, magnesium sterate, maybe some starch, a bit of povidone and so forth. Far from pure.
The sole purpose of the extraction is to reduce the paracetamol/ibuprofen down to a safe level, it is indeed very crude (and gross tasting).

I wouldn't have a clue what else remains in the liquid or whether it's truly safe or not, I just assumed it was binder crap that was harmless.
12:36pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Karmadelik
Brisbane, Queensland
180 posts
You cant just look at the benefits without atleast consulting the costs of a legalized system. I could rattle a few off the top of my head but im down with the sickness atm and cant think straight right now.

harm? bronchiatis, asthma, paranoia, skitzophrenia, cannabis psychosis, anxiety & panic, car/work accidents... im sure theres more.
12:37pm 08/11/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3115 posts
Why do you even care?

A number of reasons but i suppose the biggest is that codeine containing drugs available without prescription are now S3 category meaning they are meant to have pharmacist intervention. As in every sale is meant to require a consultation with a pharmacist to ensure correct usage.

So while short term pain that requires the use of codeine is fine, say a headache, migraine, backache etc, long term usage should be referred to a GP to ensure there isnt a more serious issue. The pharmacists know this, the customer's file shows max codeine boxes being purchased weekly for weeks/months on end and they continue to sell the product knowing it is likely being misused.

I really dont care what people do with their lives but the pharmacy has a duty of care to ensure appropriate drug use and thats what separates us from supermarkets and why we can stock codeine and they cant. But if pharmacists are gunna happily hand out codeine, why even have the BS rules and regulations in place?
12:38pm 08/11/12 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
6973 posts
just decriminalise it imo.
less wasted money in the legal/penal systems.
12:55pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Karmadelik
Brisbane, Queensland
181 posts
its decriminalised in SA right?
12:58pm 08/11/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17471 posts
i love these drug hysteria types^

01:12pm 08/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21735 posts
The funniest ones are the drug hysteria types who drink alcohol.
01:18pm 08/11/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
9513 posts
Problematic mental health in aus is growing more rapidly now than 10 years ago... what do you think will happen if pots legalised?


People who self-medicate their previously undiagnosed Mental Illness with Alcohol will do it with Pot ?
Someone with an Illness is less likely to harm themselves or others on Pot than if they were drunk.

Pot doesnt cause Mental Illness.
People who have a Mentall Illness may be more likely to try Pot to reduce symptoms. People tend to try Pot in their mid-late teens which is the same time Mental Illnesses like Schitzo' tends to be diagnosed or at least become noticible.

Corelation not causation.
Corelation is often Superstition.


01:28pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13109 posts

You cant just look at the benefits without atleast consulting the costs of a legalized system. I could rattle a few off the top of my head but im down with the sickness atm and cant think straight right now.

harm? bronchiatis, asthma, paranoia, skitzophrenia, cannabis psychosis, anxiety & panic, car/work accidents... im sure theres more.


Because the health system isn't already affected by those people at all. You seem to be saying that if it was legalized than all of a sudden people will start getting these diseases.
The probable fact of the matter is that, as stated above, legalized MJ will not have a net effect of use change. Therefor the burden to the health system will remain unchanged. However taxes could be collected and controlled measures could be taken, ie sell it as a S3 drug.

The money raised can be used to cover the costs associated with the health system. Not only that, but it opens a new (legal anyway) industry of commercial growing.
It takes money away from criminal organizations and gives it to the slightly less criminal government organization.

Stick warning labels all over it like ciggy packets and let the legal beagles sort it out so the state cant be sued.
01:36pm 08/11/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17472 posts
ie sell it as a S3 drug.


it would need to be 100% buyable without consulting anyone for it to really work

S3 category meaning they are meant to have pharmacist intervention. As in every sale is meant to require a consultation with a pharmacist to ensure correct usage.

So while short term pain that requires the use of codeine is fine, say a headache, migraine, backache etc, long term usage should be referred to a GP to ensure there isnt a more serious issue.


your average weed user isn't interested in talking to pharmasists or doctors and definitely not interested in having the s*** monitored, they wants their weed

oh and it would need to be cheaper than however much it goes for from your regular low level dealer
01:48pm 08/11/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
10430 posts
Nobody that goes to the pharmacy wants to put up with their bulls***.
01:50pm 08/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21736 posts
Buying pseudoephedrine tablets is the worst. The problem is if I am sick enough to really need them I walk into the chemist looking like a f*****g junkie so I always get the 3rd degree.
01:52pm 08/11/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3117 posts
your average weed user isn't interested in talking to pharmasists or doctors and definitely not interested in having the s*** monitored, they wants their weed

My comments were with regards to codeine usage, not the idea of MJ being S3.

Nobody that goes to the pharmacy wants to put up with their bulls***.

Rules are rules bro - its what separates pharmacies from supermarkets. They are there to help minimise incorrect usage. EG. Had some retard come in with his mother's old antibiotic script, that he wanted to get dispensed for his brother to take for a self-diagnosed UTI. So the diagnosis wasnt legit and the script was the wrong type of antibiotic.

Buying pseudoephedrine tablets is the worst. The problem is if I am sick enough to really need them I walk into the chemist looking like a f*****g junkie so I always get the 3rd degree.

Always makes me lol when the druggos come in for pseudy. They normally have a $20 in hand and the ID out and ready. This i have no issue with cause like the codeine mis-users, they know what to say but the ID database check lets us see purchases from all recent stores, not just ours, making it a more thorough system.
02:08pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5411 posts
Talking to a pharmacist beforehand would surely be a major pillar in preventing a lethal epidemic of marijuana overdose. :P
02:09pm 08/11/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
10431 posts
once I needed a syringe to inject some glue type stuff into something, and I went in and asked if they sell syringes. Holy s*** I may as well have gone in with C4 strapped to me the way they reacted. You could see the fear in their faces and the frantic behaviour of then darting around to get the syringe before I raped all of them and burnt down their houses. Surprisingly the syringe was only 50 cents!! I was expecting to pay like 20 bucks. In the end the syringe didn't do the job and I had to get a turkey baster.


Rules are rules bro - its what separates pharmacies from supermarkets. They are there to help minimise incorrect usage. EG. Had some retard come in with his mother's old antibiotic script, that he wanted to get dispensed for his brother to take for a self-diagnosed UTI. So the diagnosis wasnt legit and the script was the wrong type of antibiotic.


I don't think so because I go there to buy some f*****g cream that my doctor told me to get, because the backs of my hands get itchy, and they want to talk about my diet, and recommend books for me to read. In the meantime I am going out of my f*****g mind because the itching is doing my head in and I can SEE THE CREAM RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME which instantly makes it go away, but they won't give it to me because they want to yabber on for half an hour. Oh I'm also supposed to be at WORK b****. One day I'm just gonna rip open those jelly beans and throw them in her eyes. I've been to the doctor, he can't figure it out, I don't need some old checkout chick giving me voodoo advice. I don't want to hear her opinions ever.

last edited by thermite at 14:17:35 08/Nov/12
02:10pm 08/11/12 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
6964 posts
rofl
thermite is onto it
02:18pm 08/11/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17473 posts
My comments were with regards to codeine usage, not the idea of MJ being S3.



yeah i know, i was using what you said about S3 level drugs about toll's suggestion for mj becoming s3

and i wasn't having a go at toll it was just an example he threw out

my point is if it was legal and being regulated it needs to be easy to get people currently getting it from a dealer or the internet aren't going to jump through hoops, people will just go back to their old mate dealer or the internet for 0 hassle

hahaha thermite

last edited by paveway at 14:19:55 08/Nov/12
02:18pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13055 posts
Ripped from reddit doday, nice infographic thingy
http://www.knowabouthealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/medipot-states-201011.jpg
Its a bit old (2010) but shows how much reform has been going on, they're a long way down the path to legalisation now.
02:19pm 08/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21738 posts
Horribly out of date now though isn't it?
02:20pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13056 posts
Horribly out of date now though isn't it?

Yes, this bit was for that:
Its a bit old (2010) but shows how much reform has been going on, they're a long way down the path to legalisation now.
02:23pm 08/11/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3118 posts
Thermite, did the GP give you a script? If not, then essentially they are taking your word that the GP trip was legit when you might be lying and they need to ascertain use of the cream is going to be appropriate. Thats the point of prescriptions, even if the drug is available over the counter, to prove a GP has verified usage is appropriate.

Its all about duty of care bro. Lets pretend you didnt have a script and the GP visit was a lie. You might purchase the cream (assuming its a steroid cream), apply thick layers of it to your nuts 3x daily for the next 6 months (cause you have crabs or some s*** but didnt want to tell them that so you said it was for your hands), and something bad happens. Who you gunna blame? Probably the pharmacy. You will jump up and down on ACA or TT about how they sold it to you and now you cant have kids, and then woolies / coles will use your story to try overthrow whatever rules currently prevents them selling pharmacy drugs in their stores.

The old checkout chick is just trying to be helpful and increase the chances of you returning to their store. You didnt like her assistance but others do. Its similar when people come in to buy Caltrate. I offer them an aus owned / aus made generic thats ~$5 cheaper and 3/4 people appreciate my help while 1/4 get all s***** that i disrespected their caltrate.

I can understand your frustrations but you gotta see things from the store's POV.
02:28pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4625 posts
You cant just look at the benefits without atleast consulting the costs of a legalized system


so its sound like you're stalling more than anything. Obviuosly the costs would need to be addressed via taxes, no one is suggesting otherwise. Currently those costs associated aren't being taxed appropriately where they could be.

I think its unfair to compare alcohol to pot.
why? they're both psychoactive drugs with long history of use & abuse.

You're not going to die, get aggressive or take unnecessary risks while high, Unlike alcohol its a much much safer alternative.

bronchiatis, asthma, paranoia, skitzophrenia, cannabis psychosis, anxiety & panic, car/work accident


after all, the dangers of alchohol include

heart damage
high blood pressure and stroke
liver disease
cancers of the digestive system
other digestive system disorders (eg stomach ulcers)
sexual impotence and reduced fertility
increasing risk of breast cancer
sleeping difficulties
brain damage with mood and personality changes
concentration and memory problems
nutrition-related conditions
risks to unborn babies.

Alcohol is also responsible for:
30% of road accidents
44% of fire injuries
34% of falls and drownings
16% of child abuse cases
12% of suicides
10% of industrial accidents.

Who you gunna blame? Probably the pharmacy.
only if you're exceptionally retarded. After all any cream that can get purchased over the counter without perscription should have a warning label "don't apply to nuts" if thats a danger. After all, it could be hand cream and then i'll go scratching away without realizing i'm turning myself infertile.

last edited by Captain Lateral at 14:38:53 08/Nov/12
02:30pm 08/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21739 posts
Heh hoggy I actually did not see that line of text below the image there.
02:36pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Sc00bs
Brisbane, Queensland
9064 posts
f*** i hope they record massive tax income from the sale of it and australia, like with most other things, jumps on the american bandwagon and makes it legal aswell
03:33pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13057 posts
Heh hoggy I actually did not see that line of text below the image there.

I added it 20 seconds after post, if you were quick it may not have been there :)
03:47pm 08/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10655 posts
I never have those problems at my pharmacy, you guys need a new one.
03:56pm 08/11/12 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
6966 posts
honessssstly broooooo

davo is like the timmeh of the health science world
04:04pm 08/11/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
10434 posts
bulls*** Dav0 it's not a prescription cream at all, it's like 0.01% steroid, and my hands were bright red and puffy, and nothing she said was anything like what you're trying to justify. It clearly states on the tube not to put it on your genitals too, so no I wouldn't blame the pharmacy for selling it, what a load of crap and a random thing to say. Seriously, that's an idea only somebody with zero real argument would try to shoehorn in.
Most of what they say is nonsense anyway, pharmacists give bad advice, I've heard them dish out some blatant woowoo unscientific crap, but I can't give examples without lengthy discussion of my medical history.
Plus are you suggesting the pharmacist has any reasonable grounds to suspect I am lying? Is there a common problem with people lying about having dermatitis so they can get the cream which is designed exactly for that purpose? Do they somehow inflame the skin on their hands to make it convincing?
Frankly it's none of their business. literally. They just work there, and I am a paying customer, so they should go f*** themselves. I'd hate to have some problem like asthma or something.... go in there half way through an asthma attack, and they want to have a chit chat "Oh is the asthma medication for you?" "F*** YOU B****!!!"


Once I sent my gf to get me sinus medicine when I was laying in bed dying, she came back with some herbal bulls*** which didn't work. She said they wouldn't let her buy the real medicine. F*** pharmacists.

Just remembering how itchy and angry I felt and she wouldn't hand over the cream even though I had a fistful of cash....oh my blood boils. I need a cone.

last edited by thermite at 16:24:42 08/Nov/12
04:15pm 08/11/12 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
6974 posts
heh, the local chemist refused to sell me neurophen a while back because my reason of 'shoulder pain' was insufficent & they said i would need a prescription. i went & bought them from the supermarket. my guess is that they get so much business from regular psychosomatic fools buying mild painkillers as a placebo for imagined illness that they can afford to turn away non-regular buyers.
04:40pm 08/11/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3123 posts
I think you misunderstood a few things, thermite.

Prescription = the piece of paper you get with the product and dose written on it. If the GP had given you that, even for an over the counter cream, it might have avoided the whole old lady incident.

I wasnt suggesting you were lying or being dodgy, i was just saying that the pharmacy has a duty of care to make sure the purchase of over the counter meds is appropriate - no matter what the product is.

Your cream is probably 1% (S3) or 0.5% (S2) steroid cream which still have rules and regulations in place to ensure appropriate use. So it literally IS their business. I dont know what she said/did and what you said/did so the whole story will never be known.

So she didnt actually sell you the cream? lol. Thats interesting.
04:43pm 08/11/12 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
6968 posts
No f*** that, if it's an over the counter medication that doesn't require a prescription, sell it and stfu. Showing up to the doctor just to get a non pertinent prescription is completely retarded and puts further unnecessary strain on resources, let alone a massive waste of your time.

That's exactly the kind of bureaucratic f***wittery that has already crippled the public health system. Pull your head out of your arse and do your job, leave the thinking to actual doctors.
05:49pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13110 posts
A doctor is schooled in medicine, a pharmacist schooled in drugs.

Sometimes the pharmacist can detect problems associated with the drug and your lifestyle that the doctor doesn't realise. A doctor doesn't have time to read and understand all the possible interactions of drugs and Over The counter stuff that people use. It is wise to listen to the pharmacist if you are taking a drug for the first time.

Also, generic 4 life bro
05:51pm 08/11/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
10435 posts
So she didnt actually sell you the cream?


She sold me the cream, but put me through hell first.

It's like if I was busting for a piss and I got to the toilet and there was a guy there who made me discuss what kinds of underwear I buy in case it might prevent me from needing to piss in the future.

A doctor is schooled in medicine, a pharmacist schooled in drugs.


Lets talk about what sort of school you need to do to become a pharmacist. It's not uni, and it's not tafe, and guess what... you don't even need to be of sound mind. I can tell the story of the pharmacist I dated when I have time.

last edited by thermite at 17:58:35 08/Nov/12
05:57pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13111 posts
What, a Pharmacist degree is 4 years at uni, then a year of pre-reg?

I'm not talking about sales assistants.
06:03pm 08/11/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3125 posts
Lets talk about what sort of school you need to do to become a pharmacist. It's not uni.

Um what?
http://www.uq.edu.au/study/program.html?acad_prog=2019

if it's an over the counter medication that doesn't require a prescription, sell it and stfu.

No, its a legal requirement to check if usage is appropriate.
http://www.guild.org.au/iwov-resources/documents/The_Guild/PDFs/News%20and%20Events/Publications/Fact%20Sheets/scheduling_system.pdf
06:05pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6767 posts
I'm fairly sure that you need at least a B Science majoring in Chemistry to work in a chemist shop in Australia. Once upon a time I was doing a dual degree including a b science in nanotech/chemistry, and am fairly sure something like that was required to be a chemist.
06:08pm 08/11/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
10436 posts
Nope you can get a certificate through a short private course.
OK you can do that at tafe, but the one I know did not.
06:19pm 08/11/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3126 posts
Thats different. Thats a cert to be a pharmacist's b**** - essentially you can process prescriptions and s*** like that but they need to be approved by a pharmacist. Dunno how much they teach you about drugs though, i thought it just covered dispensing which is a matter of typing the info on the prescription (patient details, GP details, drug, dose, repeats etc) into the dispensing program nearly verbatim, and pressing enter a few times to spit out repeats, stickers etc and then grabbing the drug box.
06:27pm 08/11/12 Permalink
DM
Gold Coast, Queensland
5050 posts
Hard to understand why Pot is banned and that damaging s*** is available to anyone over the counter.

Cant believe i'm agreeing with faceman but he is right. How many deaths a year are because people f***ed about with legal medication and took a lethal mix, get addicted to it or the drug itself has some horrible side effect?
06:27pm 08/11/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1110 posts
im totally against this. Problematic mental health in aus is growing more rapidly now than 10 years ago... what do you think will happen if pots legalised? So you're saying that because it can make some people who are sick worse that it should remain illegal? Sorry not buying that, healthy adults should be free to make their own decisions, and the freedoms of the people shouldn't be shackled by outliers. We don't ban alcohol because it adds to the metabolic syndrome epidemic - a problem about an order of magnitude worse. And what about the sick people smoking dope helps, they don't count? If anything, removing the illegality may make proper treatment more accessible as people will be less inclined to lie about their usage to health practioners.


Hog; I have two family members who chose to use Marijuana and now their lives are ruined due to mental health issues. It's been proven to have been brought on by the use of Marijuana. Yes, Alcohol is legal, if it was illegal, I don't think there would be many people saying legalise it based on the health problems associated it, much the same as those that have been affected by the health effects of Marijuana would say don't legalise it.

Educations is king here I believe.

Most things are "banned" due to having more problems than benefits, as far as I know, and Marijuana is one of them, it's not just all about tax. If you think so, subscribe to facemans blog.
07:56pm 08/11/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1111 posts
Hard to understand why Pot is banned and that damaging s*** is available to anyone over the counter. Cant believe i'm agreeing with faceman but he is right. How many deaths a year are because people f***ed about with legal medication and took a lethal mix, get addicted to it or the drug itself has some horrible side effect?


People misuse the codeine etc, much the same as people may do with pot if it was available over the counter. Go figure ;)

You're taking an extremist use of a substance that is legal and comparing it to a substance that is illegal and not available in the same circumstance, doesn't make sense to me?

Marijuana has many horrible side effects! It's not just all hazy smoke clouds, laughter and munchies for everyone.

07:59pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13058 posts
Marijuana has many horrible side effects! It's not just all hazy smoke clouds, laughter and munchies for everyone.

Such as, and why are they worse than other legal, controlled substances?
08:18pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5413 posts
Yes, Alcohol is legal, if it was illegal, I don't think there would be many people saying legalise it based on the health problems associated it


Alcohol is fine in moderation, much like marijuana. It's not drug use that's a problem it's drug abuse.
If you go overboard with any substance you're likely to end up in a bad state and quite possibly featured in a messy youtube video at Flemington.

Do you think legalising MJ will suddenly cause everyone to become a stoner? Whoever wants to smoke weed is already doing it - prosecuting them for it is a waste of the criminal justice system's time and money.
08:58pm 08/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10660 posts
Eating too much sugar leads to obesity and diabetes, which are massive drains on our health care system. Should we ban it too?

It's just another tempting natural substance that requires that people exercise self control when consuming.
09:11pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4626 posts
I have two family members who chose to use Marijuana and now their lives are ruined due to mental health issues.
could you define their mental health issues? I'd be surprised if alcohol wasn't a factor.
09:35pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Karmadelik
Brisbane, Queensland
182 posts
Alcohol is fine in moderation, much like marijuana. It's not drug use that's a problem it's drug abuse.


If I so much as have a single puff it brings about an episode of great anxiety and panic. that 'moderation' argument is completely useless to me. I'm sure im not the only one too.
09:36pm 08/11/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1112 posts
Faceman said something along the lines that Marijuana doesn't cause the schizophrenia onset, rather people already have it.

To my knowledge, my two family members were 100% sane, until the use of marijuana. So in saying that, yes they may have had a predisposition to it, but for all any one knew, they were not schizophrenic. Only until the use of marijuana did they become that way.

I agree with the above posts as well, good points - Education would be the key. I don't think many more people would start using it, but I do believe the rate of consumption would increase for those that do use it to start with, then maybe die off once the fad has ended? Not sure..

I would like to see drug tests for the unemployed if they are on benefits. Obviously not those that take it medicinal uses etc. If I get drug tested to work, those on benefits can get drug tested to receive their benefits etc.
09:39pm 08/11/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1113 posts
Captain Lateral - paranoid schiophrenia.

Marijuana is well documented to bring it on in people.

Again; education is the key!
09:40pm 08/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10661 posts
I would like to see drug tests for the unemployed if they are on benefits.


Yes I agree that is a good idea.
09:40pm 08/11/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1114 posts
If I so much as have a single puff it brings about an episode of great anxiety and panic. that 'moderation' argument is completely useless to me. I'm sure im not the only one too.



+1
09:43pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34512 posts
i thang kod my local chemist is relaxed about giving me good cold and flu tablets when im sick;

and also that he gives me good cold and flu tablet swhen i slip him a tenner for my local bikies;
10:04pm 08/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21740 posts
Faceman said something along the lines that Marijuana doesn't cause the schizophrenia onset, rather people already have it.

To my knowledge, my two family members were 100% sane, until the use of marijuana.
Weed doesn't cause mental illness but can cause latent mental illness to surface and aggravate pre-existing conditions. They weren't 100% sane before they smoked.

I would like to see drug tests for the unemployed if they are on benefits.
This was trialled in the US and was a monumental failure and waste of money.
10:05pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13059 posts
If I so much as have a single puff it brings about an episode of great anxiety and panic. that 'moderation' argument is completely useless to me. I'm sure im not the only one too.

Then you shouldn't smoke pot! There are people who are asthmatics who shouldn't smoke cigarettes, and people with emotional problems who shouldn't drink.

It still makes no sense that because you personally can't handle a smoke that other people who can must not.
I would like to see drug tests for the unemployed if they are on benefits.

Lets just give them stamps instead of money because they're f*****g second class citizens and are ruining the country! You should write in to ACA with your idea, it will resonate well with that audience.

Protip: Save your scorn and derision for a more worthy target, anyone subsisting on the dole is worthy of pity not malice.
10:20pm 08/11/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1115 posts
Hogfather, you're so far off the mark, +1 for attempted trolling because I hope you're not serious.

Firstly; You don't know until you have it, and then even once can be enough to ruin your life (if you're unlucky)

Secondly; I have no scorn for those on the dole, how did you even gather that from my sentence? What is wrong with drug testing those on benefits? Where is the scorn in that?

10:25pm 08/11/12 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
2854 posts
Then you shouldn't smoke pot! There are people who are asthmatics who shouldn't smoke cigarettes, and people with emotional problems who shouldn't drink.
No one should smoke pot. I don't get the hype about wanting to legalise the smelliest drug out there. If it leads to some marijuana based product that can be drunk or imbibed then maybe, but smoking is on the outs so why encourage a drug that is predominantly smoked?

Bring on the Cocaine and MDMA legalisation IMO, at least people getting high on that won't be stinking the place out.
10:29pm 08/11/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1116 posts
fpot; if the have no negative effects then the perception is normality. If the use of the drug brings it on, then it's the drug that is the problem?
10:30pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34515 posts
can we legalise pingers now?
10:30pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6770 posts
I would like to see drug tests for the unemployed if they are on benefits.

I have no idea how much most drugs beyond alcohol, sugar, and coffee cost, but um, I doubt that anybody who qualifies for full benefits could afford any, unless somebody is subsiding their housing.

Faceman arguing that marijuana won't cause mental illnesses is a bit non-compelling though. :P
10:39pm 08/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10663 posts
Don't forget to account for sexual favours Nerfy.
10:57pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13060 posts
No one should smoke pot. I don't get the hype about wanting to legalise the smelliest drug out there. If it leads to some marijuana based product that can be drunk or imbibed then maybe, but smoking is on the outs so why encourage a drug that is predominantly smoked?

First and foremost people should be free to make their own choices.

Secondly there are already better ways to imbibe than burning dope.
11:03pm 08/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21743 posts
What is wrong with drug testing those on benefits? Where is the scorn in that?
Explain to me the benefits of testing. If someone on payments gets busted with drugs in their body their money gets taken away... and then what? It's just going to make their situation worse. You are assuming that everyone who takes recreational drugs is automatically some sort of loser who can't look for work/be a productive member of society if they are toking up. That's the scorn.

I don't really want to comment too much on your personal family situation. From the research I have read weed doesn't cause mental illness it only brings latent illness to the surface like I said. You were never inside your family member's head before they got really bad so you don't know if they were experiencing mild symptoms but were scared to say anything about it due to the stigma against mental illness.

So if weed was legalised it would be regulated pretty much the same as alcohol wouldn't it? You'd need a license to sell it and you'd only be able to smoke it in private or designated areas (probably just in private). No need to worry about smells if people are just smoking in their homes there deadlyfly.
11:05pm 08/11/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3132 posts
Solid post fpot, i agree.
11:08pm 08/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10664 posts
Explain to me the benefits of testing. If someone on payments gets busted with drugs in their money gets taken away... and then what? It's just going to make their situation worse.


I think it is an idea that should be discussed. Let's say you submit to a blood test that your GP gives you every three months while you are on welfare. If you fail the test your payment isn't taken away but the police are notified and you have to go to rehab. What's wrong with that?

The point of welfare is that it supports people who are looking for work. If you're on welfare and you have a drug addiction that is impairing your ability to find steady employment you obviously need more support, in the form of rehabilitation. It would be especially appropriate in situations where children are involved.

last edited by dais at 23:13:35 08/Nov/12
11:12pm 08/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21745 posts
Just because someone smokes weed while on welfare doesn't necessarily mean they have a drug addiction, though. I mentioned before that they tried this in the USA (Florida I believe) and it cost a s***load of money and they hardly caught anybody. It's possible that the people who had drugs in their system stopped collecting benefits so they could dodge the test but for most people this would literally be impossible - man gotta eat, yo.

On an emotional level it is also demeaning and a massive invasion of privacy. People are rarely on welfare by choice so if someone does find themselves on welfare it would be a bad thing for them to have to submit urine for drug tests as well. I have been on Centrelink before and it is harrowing as f*** going into that awful soulless place like some kind of beggar. Being tested for drugs would just make it worse. Plus what would be the point of notifying the police about a positive drug test? It is not a criminal offence to have drugs in your system.

Source for the Florida thing.
11:19pm 08/11/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19262 posts
I had an employee last year who was an ex-crim but I decided to give him a go because he seemed fair dinkum, and looked like he wanted a fresh start.

Anyways to cut a long story short things went well for about 6 months and then he started acting out, running out of money hocking stuff, becoming uncontactable. Turns out he was a schizophrenic from chronic dope and drug use, and now suffered from psychotic episodes so strong even valium couldn't get him to sleep.

He had also gained a codeine addiction to get himself off the recreational drugs and valium. He was going through 3-4 packs of nurofen a day and would go from chemist to chemist and doctor to ER to get whatever scripts he could.

I cut him loose and he was detained by a Qld Govt mental unit.

Do I care that his life was ruined by dope and speed and pill addiction? Of course I do.

Should it be illegal? i used to think yes, but it really won't stop dope users and pill addicts so why make them criminals.

It does make for a great business opportunity for anyone who is into the care of older people who suffer the resulting dementia though...
11:27pm 08/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10665 posts
I'm not talking about testing for pot, I support its legalisation and have said things to indicate that. But in the case of more damaging drugs I think there is an issue there. If a parent is receiving a payment and blowing half of it on smack instead of food for their children then they need assistance.

When you receive a payment from Centrelink you are entering in to a legally binding agreement to do everything you can to find suitable employment. As far as the police being involved I'm just looking at it from the point of view of getting people in to rehab, not incarceration. Failing that test when you are receiving a payment could be made an offence.

I have also been on Centrelink and felt the same way. But I would be willing to submit to a test every three months through my GP.
11:27pm 08/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10666 posts
Maybe I feel this way because I finished watching The Wire recently. Poor Dookie :[
11:34pm 08/11/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
9515 posts
We'd better make sure the Unemployed arent having sex too.
Freedom is wasted on many of you, you just dont get it.
First its the minorities that lose rights, then its the majority.

If I so much as have a single puff it brings about an episode of great anxiety and panic. that 'moderation' argument is completely useless to me. I'm sure im not the only one too.


Pot acts instantly like many other Drugs inhaled/injected.
Some ppl induce a panic attack/anxiety because they try to fight that change.
Just relax and enjoy it.
Some ppl dont like it, some do, some ppl would never jump out of a Plane.
(like me)

Weed doesn't cause mental illness but can cause latent mental illness to surface and aggravate pre-existing conditions. They weren't 100% sane before they smoked


This statement reminds me of the AGW Psuedoscience about Hurricane Sandy.
It not a cause, It just makes something a little worse.
Its Superstitious nonsense that isnt backed up by Scientific testing.
Its propaganda.

Is there really an epidemic of Mental Illness in Societies that have legalised Pot ?
Critical Thinking...



last edited by FaceMan at 23:42:40 08/Nov/12
11:39pm 08/11/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1117 posts
wow...

Clearly the point is to deter consumption of illicit substances whilst on welfare and to encourage them to seek work etc.

There would have to be a form of punishment if found using drugs whilst receiving benefits, to which extent I don't know.

Not sure how the intelligence pool is so low tonight, why assume that because of that statement I'm closed minded to the fact that we need to have something in place to support the policy?

11:44pm 08/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10667 posts
We'd better make sure the Unemployed arent having sex too.


No that is encouraged by the government in the form of the baby bonus.
11:46pm 08/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21746 posts
Clearly the point is to deter consumption of illicit substances whilst on welfare and to encourage them to seek work etc.
What's the difference between people drinking beer while on welfare and smoking weed while on welfare? What's the difference between people spending money on beer while on welfare and spending money on weed while on welfare? Beer is legal and weed is not, but I don't see how that makes a difference in this case. If you think it does please explain how.

And I guess you just ignored the bit where they tried this in Florida and it was a massive money wasting failure.
11:49pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6771 posts
I was on centrelink as a student, and then a few weeks more recently. The idea that you're going to do anything useful by getting people to submit to tests for drugs, which they almost certainly couldn't afford, seems pretty pointless, and possibly even harmful to people who you're trying to encourage. My friend is struggling to find a job in her field (research) at the moment, and so is on newstart, and just the regular harassment and scorn that you get for being on centrelink is bad enough for her, I'd never condone adding humiliating pee tests on the insinuation that she must be some kind of addict if she is struggling to find work.
11:54pm 08/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10668 posts
The thing about it is that it would never be implemented by a Labor government. They would lose their core voters, right guys?!
11:58pm 08/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6772 posts
I've always voted lib over labor and wouldn't vote for that, just because it seems stupid (though I understand the goal, I don't think that it adds up under consideration, especially given that plenty of hard working people have heavy alcohol addictions, and people who qualify for those kinds of payments probably can't afford drugs, not to mention that the goal in that situation should be encouraging people, not pointlessly insulting, harassing, and humiliating them, and making them feel like rubbish).
12:03am 09/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10669 posts
About a year ago I was at Grovely train station. Some random dishevelled teenager sat next to me and started chatting, the sort you would usually avoid. He was saying how nice my shoes were and that he couldn't afford new shoes because he was on Centrelink. His mother was an alco and took his payment to spend on booze. From the state he was in I believed him.

Just a random story I thought was relevant.
12:07am 09/11/12 Permalink
Nerf Lord
Brisbane, Queensland
6773 posts
And you think that a drug test (for him or her?) would solve that problem? AFAIK there are avenues for trying to deal with that (e.g. parents won't receive payments if their children don't attend school, etc), but there's no clear cut solution. You wouldn't only be hitting people like her with a method which likely won't solve anything, you'd be hitting all the people in genuine need too. If people are on centrelink long term than I do think that they should be getting seen to in a more intimate manner with whatever resources that the government has available, but I suspect that they already do.

From my brief experience, even when the department knew that I wasn't going to be on centrelink for more than a brief flash to get a proof of address for registering as a business on paypal through them (annoying situation that I was in due to lodging after floods, with Australia's anti terrorism laws to stop money laundering, and then some business training which was recommended to me), they still hounded me crazily asking where my proof of job applications were, having me go in regularly, having me report various things online. It's a pretty intense system it turns out, surprised me a little tbh. It's definitely not a luxurious walk in the park or somewhere where anybody would want to stay if they could just get a real job for probably no more time spent and more money.

My friend who has been on it for months now, and about to give up her career after years in it and completely change fields, now has to go in for something like 20 hours a week for centrelink activities - they don't seem to let people just sit on it with no effort like in culture myths, and it's only enough to cover cheap sharehouse rent/food/bills, if that, so I really don't think that the priority should be finding the supposed people who live luxuriously off of the system. Seems like a misguided waste, considering what they already do.
12:10am 09/11/12 Permalink
dais
Brisbane, Queensland
10670 posts
No I don't think either of them should be tested for alcohol abuse, I already said I don't think it should apply to marijuana either.

It was just a random story I thought was relevant.

I'm not absolutely committed to the idea of drug testing on Newstart, like I said I just think it should be discussed. Pros and cons.
12:19am 09/11/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1118 posts
Florida? Who gives a f***? Learn from their mistakes - USA has a complete different system than AUS, so the comparison is void.

I'll reinstate my basis of my statement; If I have to take a drug test TO WORK, why don't those that get benefits have to take one? They should. I agree it's hard getting a job and being positive when you're in a rut, this isn't a fairy land though. Handing in your center link form and the job diary was viewed the same way when it was first introduced, not its common day practice. And if they are getting free money, why the f*** not ask them to submit to drug testing?

All the above forms are meant to deter or stop the abusers, not cripple or detract from the people doing the right thing.

If you're doing the right thing, shouldn't be a problem, I sure wouldn't care if they asked me to if they are giving me free money. It's not like it's a right of birth to get it. Why not earn it? All you have to do is take a piss in a cup and not do drugs and actively seek employment etc...

The f*** guys....?

12:20am 09/11/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3134 posts
I think all the artificial sweeteners in your supps have f***ed with your brain XaltD :P
12:27am 09/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21747 posts
Florida? Who gives a f***? Learn from their mistakes - USA has a complete different system than AUS, so the comparison is void.
Well explain the differences that make the comparison void then. The system in the USA is you are out of work, you apply for unemployment benefits and then they are paid for you. Some bright spark decided to drug test people on welfare and it didn't work and wasted a whole bunch of money. I am not really seeing the massive difference in the way Australia handles welfare. You wouldn't just be making s*** up there would you? Also not implementing wasteful and pointless tests is the definition of learning from their mistakes.

I have never had to take a drug test to work. The only people I know of that do are people who work in the mines. Now mines are a high risk environment and also a very desirable place to work due to the money involved, so they can afford to put such conditions on employment there because for the phat stax people will live by them. Being on welfare is not a high risk environment, nor is it desirable. What was that you were saying about void comparisons again?

People have already explained that receiving welfare is already a very demeaning and soul destroying process. Making people piss into a cup so it can be tested just unnecessarily adds to it. I see you ignored my beer/weed thing but do you reckon alcohol should be tested for as well? If not, why not?
12:30am 09/11/12 Permalink
reload!
Brisbane, Queensland
6971 posts
because if everyone was responsible, rational, didn't take risks and compliant to regulations then there wouldn't be so many people on welfare. you talk about us not being in a fairyland but you seem to believe that all people think the way you think and value the things you value.
12:50am 09/11/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
9518 posts
What kind of work do you need a Drug Test ?
I know theres a lot of testing in Mining, but thats more for the safety of fellow workers.

Its hard to find money to buy Drugs on the Dole.
If anything Drugs would encourage ppl to get more money and get a job to buy more Drugs.
01:20am 09/11/12 Permalink
slamma
Perth, Western Australia
73 posts
Well what an interesting read this has turned out to be,having smoked pot for 23-24 years i feel qualified to make an opinion here,so forgive any spelling mistakes i may make as i thought i would partake in a few cones to set the mood"for myself that is"so here goes nuthin.As i said i've smoked pot for a long time now and i still shake my head at people that can't come to grips with the fact that people need a release from the normal everyday life and the stresses that entails and everyone has their own way of doin this,now wether that be drugs,grog,gaming or whatever your thing is,for me a few cones does the trick and the most important thing is moderation.

Like most people here "at a guess" i started drinking grog first and started smoking weed later on,now with grog unfortunatley lead me down the wrong path in respect to getting into fight's and not just fights but all sorts of stupid s*** and ashamedly a couple of dui's that could have ended badly by that i mean blowing .196 and trying to blue one of the coppers.In my humble opinion pot is far less harmfull that grog will ever be and i don't need to tell anyone here why,just go down to any city centre of a weekend and you'll see what i mean.Sure pot has it's downsides and they have all been stated here many times but i would argue that it always comes back to the individual person,some can some can't haha and some just shouldn't.

When i was younger i had to have a cone before i did anything and that includes work and like most of us i grew a little wiser and now days its just for relaxation,I work in the mines in wa and yeah the dollars are good probably better than we deserve but at the same i sacrifce alot for this type of working life-4 in 1 rosters,lack of social life,only catching up with mate's for ten weeks of the year,and drug testing at work,which by the way i agree with just not the methods used.I've had the unfortunate pleasure of seeing what damage a person whose been on speed and been awake for three days can do and i'll tell ya its not pretty but you'll never hear about it,as what goes on in the mining industry the general population and most of you would be shocked i'll give you the tip and 99% the of the problems are not drug related at all.The reason i bring it up is because i can have few cones on break and fail a drug test a week later because they still use the antiquated testing of your urine which is by no mean an accurate reading.Imagine if you had a few beers on the weekend and then blew numbers thursday ahh imagine the uproar.Pot stores in your fat cells and your body releases it through sweat and urines,it does not accumilate in your blood cells as some would have you believe so there for once it's effects have worn off you aren't still stoned a week later,thank f*** as i'd hate to be stoned for a week.

like i said moderation is the key,there's no point saying whats good for me is good for you.As a resonably intelligent adult i would like the right to make my own decisions with input from friends and family as to how my life should be lived,and luckily in oz we have that 95% of time so i've got no complaints really,just throwing my little opinion on the matter out there and you can make what you will of it,cheers
06:23am 09/11/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1242 posts
XaltD, wouldnt it be a better idea to get them to just submit receipts to show where they spend their money?

Of course, that would be an idiotic invasion of privacy too, but to a lesser extent than your proposal.
09:16am 09/11/12 Permalink
taggs
6054 posts
To date, 17 states have passed medical marijuana laws, yet very little is known about their effects. The current study examines the relationship between the legalization of medical marijuana and traffic fatalities, the leading cause of death among Americans ages 5 through 34. The first full year after coming into effect, legalization is associated with an 8 to 11 percent decrease in traffic fatalities. The impact of legalization on traffic fatalities involving alcohol is larger and estimated with more precision than its impact on traffic fatalities that do not involve alcohol. Legalization is also associated with sharp decreases in the price of marijuana and alcohol consumption, suggesting that marijuana and alcohol are substitutes. Because alternative mechanisms cannot be ruled out, the negative relationship between legalization and alcohol-related traffic fatalities does not necessarily imply that driving under the influence of marijuana is safer than driving under the influence of alcohol.


http://dmarkanderson.com/Medical_Marijuana_Accidents_and_Alcohol_10_16_12_v1.pdf
05:05pm 09/11/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1119 posts
because if everyone was responsible, rational, didn't take risks and compliant to regulations then there wouldn't be so many people on welfare. you talk about us not being in a fairyland but you seem to believe that all people think the way you think and value the things you value.


The f***? You're a subject of your own statement? Also; I don't expect people to believe the same as me, my "the f*** guys...?" statement was that I was starting to get a feeling that people assume that welfare is right. It's not, it's a privilege. I, like most of you as well, work damn hard for your money and wouldn't want your tax money going to the abusers of the system?


I also have been on benefits and would not have cared in the slightest if asked to permit to a test. Maybe it's because my view is that it's a privilege to get the money to survive on, not a right? Yeah being on the dole sucks ass, big time, but it's hardly putting you out to do a test?





What kind of work do you need a Drug Test ?




I am not really seeing the massive difference in the way Australia handles welfare. You wouldn't just be making s*** up there would you? Also not implementing wasteful and pointless tests is the definition of learning from their mistakes.


I think learning from their mistake, in a stance of wanting to implement a better version, would be pretty straight forward..... You analyse the model and re-work it to a more satisfactory out come? Or are you assuming the american model was the best possible and therefore any others attempt would be an instant failure? Not sure where you are coming from.

Your question about alochol however is a great question, not sure where I stand on that one. Obviously can not be intoxicated at work (preferably) however having it in your system or using it casually certainly doesn't ring any alarm bells in me if you were to be on benefits? Makes me think ;)



People have already explained that receiving welfare is already a very demeaning and soul destroying process. Making people piss into a cup so it can be tested just unnecessarily adds to it


ARMY - Full time soldier

Its hard to find money to buy Drugs on the Dole. If anything Drugs would encourage ppl to get more money and get a job to buy more Drugs.



Been around that crowd a bit unfortunately, and it's not like that. They stay unemployed and deal / use drugs and stay outside the system, no problem if they weren't also ripping us off that are inside the system and taking money for free.



XaltD, wouldnt it be a better idea to get them to just submit receipts to show where they spend their money? Of course, that would be an idiotic invasion of privacy too, but to a lesser extent than your proposal.


Idiotic invasion of privacy? Not sure what makes you say that, like I said earlier, it's a matter of perception and I don't agree with what you said at all. If I was on benefits, I wouldn't find it invasive to do a test for illegal drugs in my system to get money to survive on, that is viewed as a privilege.



The alcohol question has definitely challenged my mind set though
07:43pm 09/11/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1120 posts
well i scewed up the quotes / replies as I'm rushing to get to the gym, will fix later.
07:50pm 09/11/12 Permalink
eski
Perth, Western Australia
1245 posts
Well its idiotic because its expensive and the tests are often flawed, and its an invasion of privacy because in this country you have no right to do anything like that or any precedent for such action.

There are some drug f***ed people that will never get jobs and welfare is EXACTLY what I want those folk to get. If you cut their benefits they will break into your house and motherf*****g stab you. The safety net is for everyone, because it makes our society a better place on so many levels.
07:51pm 09/11/12 Permalink
PornoPete
UK
774 posts
In my humble opinion pot is far less harmfull that grog will ever be and i don't need to tell anyone here why,just go down to any city centre of a weekend and you'll see what i mean


Gotta compare apples with apples. Just because most people who get stoned now while it is illegal have to keep it discrete, doesn't mean that people getting stoned while it's totally legal will act the same way.

To be clear I am all for the end of prohibition. It's a waste of time and money.
07:53pm 09/11/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34520 posts
as someone who liked pot at one stage and someone who liked drinks at one stage, i can tell you that in my case pot is 1 million times worse for my mental heath than booze.

to the point where i no longer smoke pot, due to its negative effects on my brain.

unfortunately, i still drink a lot.

i totes understand everyone isnt like me though and loads of people can smoke bongs with no or lesser negative effects than ive suffered from
08:00pm 09/11/12 Permalink
Beezwax
Brisbane, Queensland
82 posts
spook, you are dead on. i have experienced this as well and know exactly what you mean. actually, ditto everything.
01:40am 10/11/12 Permalink
Imperial
Brisbane, Queensland
478 posts
I think it's also often overlooked that some of the anxiety/panic that (some) people experience can be directly related to the mere fact that it is illegal too. Which would on some small scale be reduced if it were legalised.
03:36am 10/11/12 Permalink
Imperial
Brisbane, Queensland
479 posts
Not to mention the different varieties, strains, grow conditions/techniques can change the chemical profile quite a bit ie. The percentages of THC, CBD (Cannabidiol), CBN (Cannabinol) and many others therefore giving a variety of different psychological and physiological effects. Which would be regulated and advertised as so if legalisation were to occur.


last edited by Imperial at 05:15:29 10/Nov/12
05:08am 10/11/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34521 posts
I think it's also often overlooked that some of the anxiety/panic that (some) people experience can be directly related to the mere fact that it is illegal too. Which would on some small scale be reduced if it were legalised.


yer, nah.
07:05am 10/11/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17477 posts
I think it's also often overlooked that some of the anxiety/panic that (some) people experience can be directly related to the mere fact that it is illegal too


haha
07:34am 10/11/12 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
8719 posts
I think it's also often overlooked that some of the anxiety/panic that (some) people experience can be directly related to the mere fact that it is illegal too. Which would on some small scale be reduced if it were legalised.
This is what I've observed also.

I've seen at least ~15 people suffer attacks after smoking, every single one of them was in direct relation to getting caught (family or police). I have never seen someone suffer an attack that wasn't related to its legality.

They ALL had the same things in common:
-First time.
-High chance of being caught / bad location.
-Significant repercussions if caught.
08:22am 10/11/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34523 posts
I've seen at least ~15 people suffer attacks after smoking, every single one of them was in direct relation to getting caught (family or police). I have never seen someone suffer an attack that wasn't related to its legality.


i find this extermely difficult to believe.

ive been around smokers my entire adult life and never once seen anyone have an issue about being caught by the cops

we've smoked at music festivals, parties, houses, parks what evs.

you must hang around with some super cop fearin folks.

09:31am 10/11/12 Permalink
CHUB
Brisbane, Queensland
8720 posts
i find this extermely difficult to believe.

ive been around smokers my entire adult life and never once seen anyone have an issue about being caught by the cops

we've smoked at music festivals, parties, houses, parks what evs.

you must hang around with some super cop fearin folks.
That's probably the reason, they were all teenagers.

Adults don't fear their parents, school and the police (to an extent)... which is probably why I've never seen an adult suffer an attack.


last edited by CHUB at 09:39:40 10/Nov/12
09:38am 10/11/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34524 posts
yer, that would make sense;
09:45am 10/11/12 Permalink
Imperial
Brisbane, Queensland
480 posts
If you invite guilt or fear into the situation with Cannabis then you're asking for a rough ride imo, and guilt and fear can come from many factors.
12:33pm 10/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21755 posts
One of my only paranoia moments came from a police threat. Our house had been raided on a totally unrelated incident (roommate's on parole boyfriend was caught driving without a license, gave a fake name so the cops did a rego search which came up with our address. They entered the house unannounced and found a very small amount of weed. They arrested my mate and he got a drug diversion. They missed me by about 15 minutes). A few weeks later the roommate called and said he had been detected trying to defraud JB Hifi or something and it was highly likely the cops were going to visit again. There was s*** everywhere at the house and there was a mass panic cleaning it all up thinking they would arrive at anytime. I was willing to take full blame to save my mate from a second offence but they never showed up. Was worrying though. I know it is even less than a slap on the wrist for first offence weed possession but in my relaxed state a trip to the cop-shop would have been a f*****g nightmare.
06:10pm 10/11/12 Permalink
Beezwax
Brisbane, Queensland
83 posts
smoked weed for 1 year straight. was an alc for one year straight. if i could compare damages i would say that weed ruined my life more.
02:22am 11/11/12 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4630 posts
i would say that weed ruined my life more.
I'm curious, in what way did weed ruin your life more?
09:47pm 11/11/12 Permalink
Rdizz
Germany
2192 posts
That's probably the reason, they were all teenagers. Adults don't fear their parents, school and the police (to an extent)... which is probably why I've never seen an adult suffer an attack.


do i know any of these people? heh bruce comes to mind.
10:24pm 11/11/12 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4631 posts
I really dont care what people do with their lives but the pharmacy has a duty of care to ensure appropriate drug use and thats what separates us from supermarkets and why we can stock codeine and they cant.


So today, I asked for something to help relieve cold and flu symptoms and the pharmacy sold me "ease a cold", i,e natural healing bull s*** with dubious scientific proof of effectiveness.

this was after asking me my last 2 days history and symptoms. its a f*****g cold.

Yeah, I trust my pharmacy to have a clue... :/
02:33pm 12/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21765 posts
The worrying thing is that DD is a pharmacist works in a pharmacy but has a completely warped view of how medication works. Remember how he thinks that medication only masks the symptoms and doesn't treat the illness?

edit: oh and the reason I bring this up is because I googled that Ease-a-Cold and in it's description there was a pile of bunk about how it doesn't mask the symptoms like ~*mainstream*~ medications and actually works by boosting your immune system. As soon as something claims that it boosts your immune system you can instantly know it is a pile of bulls***.
03:20pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Drollzy
Melbourne, Victoria
59 posts
How do you get the ball rolling with this sort of thing in Oz? I suppose the first step is to get it legalised in a medicinal sense and then hopefully the evolves to it being legal in every sense.


Its already decriminilised in the act i thought?
03:26pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Drollzy
Melbourne, Victoria
60 posts
im totally against this. Problematic mental health in aus is growing more rapidly now than 10 years ago... what do you think will happen if pots legalised?


Mate the problem is ICE not weed....
03:30pm 12/11/12 Permalink
fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
21766 posts
Judging by this dodgy yahoo link no it isn't. There are some links to the actual legislation down the bottom but I really can't be bothered checking it.

What is really interesting to me is Nimbin. I'd love to read the police dossier on how that place is handled. I park my car there and within seconds I have had a couple of people offering to sell me weed. An undercover cop could make a whole bunch of arrests very quickly if they decided to blitz that place.

My theory is that the police/government treat that place as a bit of an experiment. A little localised area where drugs are 'legal' to see the effects it has on the community. The only time they'd start nailing people is if people start getting violent.
03:33pm 12/11/12 Permalink
demon
Brisbane, Queensland
6976 posts
smoked weed for 1 year straight. was an alc for one year straight.

was it the same year?
03:44pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13073 posts
smoked weed for 1 year straight. was an alc for one year straight. if i could compare damages i would say that weed ruined my life more

Sounds a lot like high-functioning alcoholism to me, and means literally nothing in the context of the discussion, other than reiterating that people have varying capability to manage substance abuse.
03:53pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Caveboy
Brisbane, Queensland
346 posts
Smoked daily for 10+ years. While I still enjoy the very occasional pissed spiff it does f*** you up to some extent.

It's also way stronger than what was going around 30 years ago.




last edited by Caveboy at 16:24:25 12/Nov/12
04:22pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Spook
Brisbane, Queensland
34538 posts
yer, nimbin is interesting.

i think the cops just honestly dont care, they've probably raided and tried to clean up nimbin many times before, but the hippies and other types just go back to selling again.

its certainly an eye opener the first time you go there!
04:24pm 12/11/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
10454 posts
When I was at the HEMP embassy I read there is believed to be some legal precedent, something along the lines of a police chief in the 60s was cool with it, so now it's OK.
I tried to find any evidence of this online, and have only read about all the raids/arrests that have happened in recent years, so clearly the police aren't under the impression that it's legit.
04:45pm 12/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13074 posts
something along the lines of a police chief in the 60s was cool with it, so now it's OK.

...

so clearly the police aren't under the impression that it's legit.

That's because some random police chief cannot set legal precedent.
05:04pm 12/11/12 Permalink
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