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StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void Developer Interview
Lumia 920 out on Telstra November 5?
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12983 posts
Lots of rumours around last few weeks that this is the date.

My iPhone 4 contract is up and being a Windows developer its a natural step to grab one ... assuming its not completely s*** when I sit down in the shop for a go. Will post a mini-review if you like.

Anyone else going home to Nokia? I think its been a decade since I owned a Nokia phone, but I still remember the 'no nokia no care' s*** that used to get around haha. Have heard reasonable things about WP8? I'm not overly concerned about the number of apps on the Store as long as it does the basics well.
09:44am 29/10/12 Permalink
system
Internet
--
09:44am 29/10/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
7843 posts
I've currently got the Nokia Lumia 900, but looks like I'm going to need to wait until Optus get their hands on it. Exclusive deals are stupid though.
10:13am 29/10/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12985 posts
Yeh that sucks =\

the 900 is WP7.5 right? Is that any good?
10:15am 29/10/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7455 posts
Looking forward to the Lumia 920 - so sick to death of my iPhone 4S - but I'm undecided if I want a device with such a massive screen :(

The Nokia Lumia 800 and Samsung Omnia W are the perfect size for a handset, they just lack in features.

If the Lumia 920 had an SD card slot, it would be a no-brainer.

Hoggy, go in to a Telstra store and play with either of the above phones I've mentioned, or a HTC HD7. There's little difference between Windows Phone 7.5 and 8.

last edited by Raven at 10:25:12 29/Oct/12
10:21am 29/10/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12986 posts
Yeh I'm not too concerned about the lack of SD. I have very rarely come close to using all the data on my iPhone's 16Gb.

The lumia does seem kind of fat, I'm also unsure about such a big phone. I want a bigger screen than my iPhone tho. Love the wireless charging and imaging sounds good, and being in the Windows ecosystem for work and my home machine etc I expect it will all play nice.

I reckon I'm done with iOS as well now, it feels really old. Thanks for the 7.5 tip, will check them out in the store. Plan to sit down with an S3 and the Lumia, but given that I want to give Windows Store dev a crack it will probably sway me that way.
10:30am 29/10/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
7844 posts
Yeh that sucks =\the 900 is WP7.5 right? Is that any good?

Yeah the 900 is amazing, I moved over from HTC Desire HD and really it just works well like the Apple iOS. The UI is simplistic, I love the Live tiles for having information directly shown. It's a solid phone too, doesn't feel light or that it may break at any moment, and you can actually use it as a hammer with the Gorilla Glass. Overall its a great phone, though the Windows phone OS will always be that in-between of Android and iOS, in that it offers both a social ease of access and also more advanced features for those who want it.
10:47am 29/10/12 Permalink
RockitMan
Brisbane, Queensland
6441 posts
I'm the same as you - completely bored of iPhone and hanging out for the lumia 920. Also gonna sell my MacBook Pro and probs get a surface or other win8 tablet.
10:47am 29/10/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7686 posts
Yeah I'll be getting Nokia Lumia 920 when it launches. Pricing and availability dates should be available after Windows phone 8 launch in week. F*****g MS dragging s*** out :/.
11:02am 29/10/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7456 posts
I'm not bored if iOS - I just can't stand the fact that I have to pair my phone to a pc - and can only pair it to a dongle pc without formatting it. To copy any music to it, it must be paired.

I'm also having constant problems with the wifi hotspot, which works via Bluetooth, but only when it can find the device.
12:41pm 29/10/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17412 posts
yeah i'm going to be looking pretty hard at one of these soon, as my contract is almost up
01:57pm 29/10/12 Permalink
Persay
Brisbane, Queensland
7583 posts
if you're bored of your phone it means your friends are boring just fyi imho
02:57pm 29/10/12 Permalink
mongie
Brisbane, Queensland
7618 posts
Theres a pretty big difference between WP7.5 and 8

One is EOL and one isn't.
04:15pm 29/10/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19234 posts
I will be getting 920 through Mobicity.
07:04pm 29/10/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1413 posts
Woohoo, excited! Definitely getting one asap
07:39pm 29/10/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17413 posts
doesn't seem to be any indication on price to buy them outright
07:46pm 29/10/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7457 posts
$699 to buy outright.
07:47pm 29/10/12 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6203 posts
i keep looking up weekly. one article today hinted at that date too.
08:13pm 29/10/12 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6204 posts
i got the winphone as soon as it comes out. i rate it. ive got an app on marketplace too. win8 has a lot of improvments. can write native apps too for it, and skype can run in the background.

lots of other cool stuff like ncf..
08:15pm 29/10/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7459 posts
Pricing and availability officially announced by Nokia. End of November; Grey 920 on all carriers. All other colour 920s on Telstra. All 820s on Vodafone.
$649 for 820; $829 for 920.

http://www.wpdownunder.com/?p=6726
Harvey Norman were taking preorders for the 920 for $699 yesterday, which they've since been ringing around and telling people they made a mistake and it's $799. GG Harvey Norman.

last edited by Raven at 09:26:42 30/Oct/12
09:24am 30/10/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12989 posts
End November eh? Well that sucks :p
09:32am 30/10/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
7847 posts
Grey only? Really? And to think Optus were the only ones selling the 900, yet now that Windows 8 is "big" Telstra come in and buy exclusive rights. This is my reaction.
09:39am 30/10/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12990 posts
Telstra has the better network and has actual 4G (and I'm on it!) so this is my reaction to your reaction, SIR.

http://www.kay-lambertassociates.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/I-dont-care.jpg
10:02am 30/10/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
36541 posts
Theres a pretty big difference between WP7.5 and 8

One is EOL and one isn't.
haha. remember when phones were so old and useless that they could EOL because you couldn't just update the software on them. those were the bad old days.

I am slightly amazed to see nerds get interested in the Windows Phone. I find your reasons utterly bizarre as well. It looks like a great phone on paper so I will be fascinated to see how yall go with them; kudos for continuing to be early adopters of crazy new technology in the face of the overwhelming momentum of Android/iOS!
10:22am 30/10/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7461 posts
Let me guess, trog: You use an Android device?
10:24am 30/10/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12991 posts
haha. remember when phones were so old and useless that they could EOL because you couldn't just update the software on them. those were the bad old days.

These days I use a phone for 22 months on contract and then get a shiny new one. The once-$1000 device becomes a child's plaything or maybe eBay'd. EOL is the least of my worries and I'd prefer them to build cool new s*** in a phone than worry about making sure that everything works on the old s***.

Ultimately even if the new OS is able to be patched onto an old phone lots of fetaures will be hardware dependent and you're lucky to get 1-2 upgrades before it runs like s*** anyway.
kudos for continuing to be early adopters of crazy new technology in the face of the overwhelming momentum of Android/iOS!

That's how the overwhelming momentum of those phones started! This is a good thing - the only way to keep the bastards honest is to stop buying their s*** when it becomes stale.
10:41am 30/10/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17417 posts
kudos for continuing to be early adopters of crazy new technology in the face of the overwhelming momentum of Android/iOS!


i'd hardly say it's early adopting when there are already a number of devices on the market running wp7.5 which is mostly the same thing...

you also called us crazy early adopters for getting windows 7 like 2 years after it was released..

i believe trog is an iphone consumer
01:22pm 30/10/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
10378 posts
never seen a windows phone before, but if it ties right in with all your Windows 8 s***, hey why not...
01:27pm 30/10/12 Permalink
Mass
Brisbane, Queensland
1281 posts
Let me guess, trog: You use an Android device?

Yes he does, with a custom bandanna case.....
01:36pm 30/10/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7463 posts
To those (who are many) who have never actually tried a Windows phone, I urge you to go down to a Telstra store and just play around with a Lumia 800 or Omnia W.

Just play for five minutes, and then come back, report what you think.

At the very least, play with contacts, photos, the camera, messages, enable the hotspot (that forces you to go in to the settings) and at least three other tiles. Use that as a bit of a test case.

I'd say use Facebook and IE, but most display phones have no SIM.
02:36pm 30/10/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
7855 posts
Telstra has the better network and has actual 4G (and I'm on it!) so this is my reaction to your reaction, SIR.
Yeah I know, just sucks that the only option I get is a grey version because Telstra decided now was the time to jump on the Windows bandwagon, when they never bothered to get the 900. Really they shouldn't be limiting colours to one provider, gives me that DLC feel.
02:37pm 30/10/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12992 posts
Sorry Eorl I was just being a jerk at your expense, it does suck.










But ... Telstra!
03:06pm 30/10/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
36543 posts
Let me guess, trog: You use an Android device?
yeh. A Nexus One, so it is like ... 4 years old?

I use it because it is more open; I don't like Apple's walled garden approach. But I think their devices are awesome and don't hesitate to recommend them to people.
To those (who are many) who have never actually tried a Windows phone, I urge you to go down to a Telstra store and just play around with a Lumia 800 or Omnia W.
I played with my aunt's Lumia 800 on the weekend. It was OK, but I can't see any reason why I'd recommend it over Android or iPhone. As far as I could tell it was on par with pretty much everything else, just without a well-developed app ecosystem.
i'd hardly say it's early adopting when there are already a number of devices on the market running wp7.5 which is mostly the same thing...
I'm talking about the Lumia 920 which I thought ran a new version of Windows Mobile with more bells and whistles... is that not right?
04:00pm 30/10/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12993 posts
I'm talking about the Lumia 920 which I thought ran a new version of Windows Mobile with more bells and whistles... is that not right?

Reports from reviews are that its improved yeh, but I don't think consumers have access to it yet? Its certainly more than say the jump from iOS 5 to 6, but a lot less than the old win mobile to WP7.5 stuff.
04:05pm 30/10/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17418 posts
I'm talking about the Lumia 920 which I thought ran a new version of Windows Mobile with more bells and whistles... is that not right?


sort if like how android and ios update, in increments ?
06:22pm 30/10/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2300 posts
Sort of, except how it's like a totally new kernel.

I'm happy to see Windows Phone growing in popularity, they're the only ones who have been bringing anything genuinely new and different to the ecosystem in recent times.

Personally, WP is not for me – it's a little too constricted and too social-centric – but I think it's by far the better choice for a lot of people currently on iOS and Android.

Oh and having the industry be pushed and inspired by someone besides Apple can only be a good thing for everybody.
07:03pm 30/10/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
7863 posts
Well now with the tied nature of both Windows 8 phone and OS, you'll see a heap more apps appear on the market. Heck currently on my phone the amount of apps has doubled and I can only imagine what it will be like in a few months.

Really the jump between the Lumia 900 and the Lumia 920 is quite significant. We've got new live tile system, updated kernel, windows 8 OS, better social feeds, NFC, wireless charging etc etc. Its going to be quite an interesting time now that Windows are moving into the smartphone and tablet scene.
07:57pm 30/10/12 Permalink
Murderer
Tasmania
1993 posts
Galaxy S3 FTW!
08:16pm 30/10/12 Permalink
ctd
UK
10136 posts
I am upgrading from my Desire HD soon - this sounds interesting. Why would I go Windows/Nokia over Android/HTC/Samsung?

Not trolling or anything just want to hear some opinions.
06:21am 31/10/12 Permalink
mongie
Brisbane, Queensland
7619 posts
There is no upgrade path between WP7.8 and 8.

7.8 is an upgrade to 7.5 which adds a couple of features of WP8 to legacy phones.

So, if you buy a phone with a version earlier than 8, you will never get any further than WP7.8.

I liked the look of the 920, even though I'm pretty happy with Android (Galaxy S 2) however after seeing the Nexus 4 at a price I'd actually be comfortable to pay outright, I can't see how I would need to spend double that for a windows phone that I might't even like.
07:58am 31/10/12 Permalink
mental
Brisbane, Queensland
3578 posts
Windows 6 was awesome in the day when stylus pens were the reigning touch device, always wondered why they just faded put instead of making the next leap.
08:03am 31/10/12 Permalink
euphoria
Gold Coast, Queensland
2056 posts
Telstra pricing

Once available personal customers will be able to purchase Nokia Lumia 920 on the $60 Every Day Connect Plan with a $5 handset repayment per month (after using an included MRO Bonus) for 24 months which offers $600 worth of standard national calls and MMS plus unlimited text messaging to standard Australian numbers and 1GB of data for use in Australia. Min cost over 24 months is $1,560 ($65/mth) (2 minute standard call $2.38, excess data usage $0.10/MB).

Once available business customers will be able to purchase Nokia Lumia 920 on the $60 Business Performance Plan with a $5 handset repayment per month (after using an included MRO Bonus) for 24 months with $600 worth of standard national calls and MMS plus unlimited text messaging to standard Australian numbers and 1GB of data for use in Australia. Min cost over 24 months is $1,560 ($65/mth) (2 minute standard call $2.38, excess data usage $0.10/MB).
08:16am 31/10/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13000 posts
Should be $0 repayment on the $80 plan then yay.

Interestingly they had a segment on Sunrise this morning about parental controls with phones and included WP8 as 'one of the three main options' even though nobody has one yet! Then they spent a minuted showing off how the locked-down kids play area worked. Pretty cool I have to admit and as a parent whose kids love to f*** around with my phone its going to be useful.

I'm unsure if it was a particularly sly MS Australia plant or not...
09:08am 31/10/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
7866 posts
I liked the look of the 920, even though I'm pretty happy with Android (Galaxy S 2) however after seeing the Nexus 4 at a price I'd actually be comfortable to pay outright, I can't see how I would need to spend double that for a windows phone that I might't even like.
Yeah the Nexus 4 is looking to be an interesting phone, could definitely win some over with its extreme cheapness. It even has me umming.
09:19am 31/10/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13001 posts
Yeh nexus phone looks like good value.

But no LTE (4G) is a turnoff. My phone is a base-station for a mobile office for me. I'm gonna pay about 70-80 bucks a month anyway to get the call volume I need so the choice of phone is less about dollars and more about what it has done for me lately.
09:22am 31/10/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
36545 posts
There is no upgrade path between WP7.8 and 8.

7.8 is an upgrade to 7.5 which adds a couple of features of WP8 to legacy phones.
Are "apps" from 7.5-7.8 compatible with 8.0 or is the older OS a write-off environment?
10:36am 31/10/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13003 posts
This is how I think I understand it.

7.8 is a bridge for 7.5 phones providing some compatibility with 8 apps as well as the new WP8 home screen.

Applications written in 8.0 can be compatible with 7.8 phones or be 8.0 exclusive at the developer's choice. I'm guessing there's some new libraries and API calls etc that may only work in WP8. Unless there's a serious reason not to, most devs would surely choose to be as backwards-compatible as possible.

7.0, 7.5, 7.8 and 8 applications should be fully compatible with WP8.
01:02pm 31/10/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7465 posts
What's happening with Windows Phone 8 is that everything from WP7.5 is being re-compiled so it runs natively. They've done away with Silverlight and XNA - it's no longer supported.

Anything new has to be written under the new guidelines. Anything old gets a port.
02:37pm 31/10/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
36547 posts
Anything new has to be written under the new guidelines. Anything old gets a port.
... presumably, if the developers can be bothered making one though, right?
03:26pm 31/10/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7687 posts
Tried to order the Lumia 920 through or corporate Telstra rep and even they said they don't know when the launch date is so they can put in pre-order... how f*****g hopeless is this?! Release the f*****g launch date already Nokia!.
07:26am 01/11/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
4107 posts
While Windows Phone 7.x and 8 look basically the same, underneath they're essentially totally different operating systems with distinct app stores.
08:36am 01/11/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
36550 posts
Tried to order the Lumia 920 through or corporate Telstra rep and even they said they don't know when the launch date is so they can put in pre-order... how f*****g hopeless is this?! Release the f*****g launch date already Nokia!.
I've gotten on to Nokia's PR people so I will see if I can get something out of them. Also looking like we might get a review unit so if anyone is keen to get a loaner to test it out in return for writing a review.... maybe we can swing that.
11:59am 01/11/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17428 posts
i vote hoggy
12:09pm 01/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13010 posts
i vote hoggy

hoggy busy
01:37pm 01/11/12 Permalink
Mass
Brisbane, Queensland
1290 posts
I'd give it a run Trog, I have every other friggin device on my desk to play with, why not one more!
02:01pm 01/11/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7469 posts
trog, if that's something you're seriously offering, I'd love to do something like that. I'm really keen on WP8, but not ready to commit to switching. It's not like I've never written reviews before (see: CHAU, TNN) :P

And considering at the moment I'm taking a bazillion photos with my phone cos of having a new puppy and building a house, timing works.
02:29pm 01/11/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7688 posts
I've gotten on to Nokia's PR people so I will see if I can get something out of them. Also looking like we might get a review unit so if anyone is keen to get a loaner to test it out in return for writing a review.... maybe we can swing that.


Awesome, please let us know what the Nokia PR people say. It's pretty annoying for them to keep dragging this out for no good reason really.

Also I would love someone on AG to review the Lumia 920. Often time we only get a review by "pro" blogger. Which sometimes sort of skip over things and you can't really ask them any questions etc. Where as on here you can !
04:16pm 01/11/12 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
7333 posts
I guess if you're going for a one-off phone it might be worth looking at.

Otherwise I'm not sure I'd invest in the platform, given how badly Nokia has been doing over the last 4-5 years.

Not sure they'll survive? Though it would make sense for MS to buy them out at that stage to get all their IP and patents.


http://users.on.net/~deadsimple/images/nokia.png


last edited by parabol at 17:19:07 01/Nov/12
05:18pm 01/11/12 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6208 posts
wow. thats crazy. bring out snake 3. that will save em.
09:16pm 02/11/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19247 posts
me!! I will do the review
10:21pm 02/11/12 Permalink
RockitMan
Brisbane, Queensland
6443 posts
Am more interested in the HTC 8X now after seeing how much lighter it is than the Lumia 920 and almost the same specs...

I think the Google nexus looks awful (both phone and tablet).
03:32pm 03/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13028 posts
Otherwise I'm not sure I'd invest in the platform, given how badly Nokia has been doing over the last 4-5 years

Symbian failed.
07:42pm 03/11/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
7919 posts
Not sure they'll survive? Though it would make sense for MS to buy them out at that stage to get all their IP and patents.
I wouldn't say you'd be investing in Nokia, more so investing in the Windows 8 phone OS. Nokia would only control the updates and even then being the first Win8 phone it might be like the Google Nexus with unrestricted updating.
08:55pm 03/11/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17478 posts
Soz guys got impatient and went got a samsung galaxy s3 yesterday
06:56am 11/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13067 posts
I hear good things
09:23am 11/11/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17480 posts
brilliant so far
09:28am 11/11/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19268 posts
did u get it pave?

edit: nevermind.

last edited by infi at 09:33:32 11/Nov/12
09:32am 11/11/12 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6213 posts
hurry up ms/telstra
09:43am 11/11/12 Permalink
crazymorton
Brisbane, Queensland
3566 posts
If Nokia go out then BB can't be far behind. Wonder if their OS10 will save them?

For those that have changed phones to a different OS how do you find it with regard to retention of apps that you might have had originally. Is it hard to find cross platform versions of your faves?
11:17am 11/11/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1414 posts
I'm still waiting :/ F*****g Telstra
11:55am 11/11/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17483 posts
Blackberry still have a big cut of the pie due to lots of businesses still running it
12:29pm 11/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13094 posts
Looks like delivery from the 27th, got my pre-order invitation email today:

http://i.imgur.com/cOfpo.png

Speaker seems like a bit of a wank, would have much preferred a charge pad.
02:57pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
7993 posts
Its getting harder to choose between the Nexus 4 and the Lumia 920. I'm now leaning towards the Nexus 4 as it looks like a really solid phone, though I think I'll wait it out until I can verify if Optus will upgrade my phone for free.
03:03pm 13/11/12 Permalink
csirac
Brisbane, Queensland
2775 posts
Hog: Do you need LTE? Otherwise take a look at the nexus 4, it should be out in a few days with android 4.2. But if you need/want LTE then S3 is your only android choice.
03:13pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13096 posts
I want LTE and need a Windows 8 Phone ... so I don't think that android will help me ;)
03:22pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7693 posts
Thanks for the heads up Hogs, I just chased our Telstra's corp rep.
03:52pm 13/11/12 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6214 posts
dang. pre olders sold out
09:39pm 13/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13105 posts
dang. pre olders sold out

F*** I was going to do it today!
11:06am 14/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13163 posts
Picked one up today, managed to nab one of the 2 (!) that my local store was delivered.

So far I'm quite liking WP8. The integration with social media in particular is really well done. The tiles interface works well on a mobile device, and I can see how it will really work well on Surface x86 tablets. Its just a shame its so s*** for keyboard and mouse which creates the Windows8 metro problems.

Coming from an iPhone4 background seeing the read-write phone directories in my windows explorer was a lot more welcome than it maybe should have been!

The phone itself is big and has a pleasant heft in my hand without feeling like a brick. I was concerned in reviews about the thickness compared to other phones but its within tolerance for me.

The display is really pretty and the camera phone is the best I've ever seen personally (though I haven't owned any Samsung gear). I was using it to film an office fitout this morning and was gobsmacked at how well the camera adjusted to varying light conditions and my unsteady hand.

As expected and hoped connectivity to my old 2003 SBS was painless and al lmy contacts calendars etc magically appeared. As noted in passing above what was really cool was when I set up facebook integration my contacts linked with FB and pictures, wall updates etc all appeared.
01:44pm 27/11/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7528 posts
Dropped in to the Telstra store to play with one at lunch time. Thorough impressed - it's not as big as I thought, compared to the iPhone 4S. A tad heavy, but I'm sure I'll survive.

$305 to pay out my iPhone 4S contract on Telstra - I'm paying $20/mo, and have 10mo left.
So I can either buy it outright ($700), or pay $5/month for the handset and pay out $300. (both $60/mo plans).

Think I'll pay out the contract and put it on a new contract, works out cheaper that way... and then "yay, no more f%&*#% iPhone!"
02:16pm 27/11/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3449 posts
If Nokia go out then BB can't be far behind. Wonder if their OS10 will save them?

For those that have changed phones to a different OS how do you find it with regard to retention of apps that you might have had originally. Is it hard to find cross platform versions of your faves?



I've gone from a BB bold 9000, which I have loved to death, and it has coped some real abuse in that time, to a sony xperia s (running ICS)

I haven't had much of an issue changing OS, everything is pretty easy to work out, and the transition software wise has been easy, I've found a free app that covers the jobs of my old paid for apps, also, having some fun free apps is nice

performance aside, my biggest issue has been moving to a touch screen, f*** me I hate typing on it, (it isn't just an issue with the sony, but all touch phones) and my biggest grip is fine control, (like selecting a single letter in a paragraph) at times, i honestly wish i had small ninja fingers, or a mouse (or little track pad) just to make correct easier
02:36pm 27/11/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17531 posts
i considered an experia s when i got my samsung galaxy s3, but you just can't go past the s3's specs

and i think the experia as actually a tad more expensive somehow..
02:43pm 27/11/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19291 posts
i have ordered a 920 from mobicity. I have always been concerned about moving to a touch screen too as I love QWERTY keypad.
03:21pm 27/11/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1426 posts
http://exchange.telstra.com.au/2012/11/13/nokia-lumia-920-launches-with-telstra/

"It was also be available outright for $696 at Telstra stores"

"Please confirm again, the $696 outright price. i blasted at your complaints as they are firmly advising a $829 outright price."

"Hi Dale, Yes $696 is correct. Brendan"
05:21pm 27/11/12 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3451 posts
i considered an experia s when i got my samsung galaxy s3, but you just can't go past the s3's specs

and i think the experia as actually a tad more expensive somehow..



i got it new, at half the cheapest ebay price

(a mate upgraded, and the sony was the included handset, but they have stuck with their samsung S2)
05:28pm 27/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13165 posts
Wow simul that thread is a clusterf***. They really underestimated demand, hope they can restock quickly worldwide, hope its successful as more handsets = more apps in store!
06:58pm 27/11/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19292 posts
No way they are selling outright for $696.
07:06pm 27/11/12 Permalink
Crakaveli
USA
6238 posts
still not sure why anyone wouldn't buy a nexus 4.

http://www.google.com/nexus/4/
09:23pm 27/11/12 Permalink
Insom
Canada
4138 posts
still not sure why anyone wouldn't buy a nexus 4.

http://www.google.com/nexus/4/

only 16gb... really?
09:33pm 27/11/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1427 posts
still not sure why anyone wouldn't buy a nexus 4.

http://www.google.com/nexus/4/


Its a nice phone, lack of LTE will turn some people off, and others dislike android. But it is a nice phone, and nexus phones are always nice for future-proofing software updates (and how cheap it is is very nice).
11:11pm 27/11/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7534 posts
A smartphone without LTE is basically useless in the Melbourne CBD. There are so many people on Telstra's 3G network that you simply can't get data packets.

I'm going to be ringing them today to see if I can maybe do a lil deal to upgrade to an LTE handset, "if that will fix the problem".
08:12am 28/11/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8126 posts
still not sure why anyone wouldn't buy a nexus 4.

http://www.google.com/nexus/4/

Looks like they are coming back in stock, excellent.
08:51am 28/11/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7697 posts
Picked one up today, managed to nab one of the 2 (!) that my local store was delivered.So far I'm quite liking WP8. The integration with social media in particular is really well done. The tiles interface works well on a mobile device, and I can see how it will really work well on Surface x86 tablets. Its just a shame its so s*** for keyboard and mouse which creates the Windows8 metro problems.Coming from an iPhone4 background seeing the read-write phone directories in my windows explorer was a lot more welcome than it maybe should have been! The phone itself is big and has a pleasant heft in my hand without feeling like a brick. I was concerned in reviews about the thickness compared to other phones but its within tolerance for me. The display is really pretty and the camera phone is the best I've ever seen personally (though I haven't owned any Samsung gear). I was using it to film an office fitout this morning and was gobsmacked at how well the camera adjusted to varying light conditions and my unsteady hand.As expected and hoped connectivity to my old 2003 SBS was painless and al lmy contacts calendars etc magically appeared. As noted in passing above what was really cool was when I set up facebook integration my contacts linked with FB and pictures, wall updates etc all appeared.


F*** yeah Hoggy, that's what I wanted to hear, reviews by real geeks for geeks! I'm hitting up our Telstra Corporate rep now to get one. In the mean time I might go to Telstra shop and have a play in store.
09:34am 28/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13167 posts
MOAR

The good:

- Nokia Drive is really quite awesome. I recommend picking up the beta and getting a car mount for free turn-by-turn navigation GPS. I haven't owned a modern Navigator but this seems to be full-featured with 3D mapping, voice directions, auto-repathing if you go off track and a speedo that alerts you if you go over the local limit. Also doesn't require a data connection once you download the ~250Mb Australia map package. Not sure about congestion updates, but still a solid free addition to the device.

- In general Nokia have a fair few good apps on the store, the photography ones are fun. There's one where you can take a group photo and it takes like 5 shots in rapid fire. You then best base photo and then it swaps in the faces you choose from the other shots. Sounds like a good way to avoid that 'this photo is good but Bob is a retard and closed his eyes'.

- There's another app that you can use to find s*** like restaurants around you in one of those HUD kind of altered reality deals. Works pretty well and integrates with maps to give you directions.

- Night camera is pretty amazing. Wish I had it for the cyclone.

- The integration with Windows is kind of cool. I played with the Windows Phone app and its good but limited in scope. The real awesome s*** is Windows Explorer's understanding of the phone - I copied some video into the ~/Videos directory and Windows cheerfully asked me if I'd like to convert the video on the fly to a best format for the phone, gave it a go and it was a little bit slower to get it to the phone but the video ran perfectly. Have only run the one file though so I can't say if it was worth the conversion, but nice to have the option built into the OS.

The bad:

- Windows8 has no wireless sharing / synch of music and media (works in Zune on Windows 7). Zune won't connect to WP8 on Windows8. Early adopters f***ed in the bum as usual. This is just an annoyance as the USB connectivity is oretty hot and there's enough storage to preload s***.

- Sadly I have to report that the phone f*****g crashed in the middle of a call this morning and literally rebooted, driving along and call ends, look at the dash for a dropout and I see the Telstra logo on it!

This better be a one off random thing because that s*** is no go. This page has some more info. A small number of devices seem to be abnormally affected, and a hardware reset often fixes it. Lots of people reporting no problems at all after a few weeks.

I used my phone pretty much non stop yesterday without so much as a hiccup so I'm hopeful this is a mild issue for me, hopefully a software issue that they can patch at worst. Hopefully its just a new device thing and they are serious enough about this WP8 push that any endemic stability problems will be promptly sorted.
10:13am 28/11/12 Permalink
Mass
Brisbane, Queensland
1323 posts
This has been acknowledged as an issue with WP8 now hoggie, especially on the 920, OTA update due in December to address the issue and the battery life.

"We're continuing to investigate some reports of phones rebooting and have identified a cause with our partners," the company said in a statement. "We are working to get an over-the-air update out in December."
Article
05:06pm 29/11/12 Permalink
ShOdDy
Brisbane, Queensland
147 posts
Anyone tried to use paypass or paywave with their NFC enabled phone? I have tried with my 920 but can't get the terminal to recognise my phone..
10:42am 30/11/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13177 posts
Kinda cool
12:46pm 30/11/12 Permalink
Wrecktim
Perth, Western Australia
818 posts
still not sure why anyone wouldn't buy a nexus 4.

http://www.google.com/nexus/4/


yeah i picked one up a few weeks ago. first android for me. pretty sweet phone. alot bigger than my old iphone 4
05:06am 01/12/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7535 posts
Anyone tried to use paypass or paywave with their NFC enabled phone? I have tried with my 920 but can't get the terminal to recognise my phone..

I could be talking s*** here, but I've been told the reader has to be designed to recognise the device it's reading - you can't just clone any card as such.
06:20pm 02/12/12 Permalink
Murderer
Tasmania
2015 posts
samsung n vodafone are first to do it i think.. or is that their own concept thing
09:09pm 02/12/12 Permalink
ShOdDy
Brisbane, Queensland
148 posts
according to
http://www.nfc-phones.org/certified-phones/

my phone is capable of paypass (mastercard) but i can't get that working either.. i tried at a shop i went to. When i add the cc on the phone it doesn't find any apps so i think maybe that could be it?

10:38am 03/12/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3803 posts
So at the moment I'm using Iphone4s and use itunes to purchase music and synchronise with the phone to transfer music and playlists to it etc. How does this compare with the Nokia phones / Lumia? Is it the old skool way of simply drag and drop music onto the phone? Where do you guys purchase your music from?
02:02pm 03/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13181 posts
Most of my music is ripped from CDs or iTunes.

WP8's music management is pretty good. You can synch with iTunes, or Windows Media Player, or the Windows Phone app thing for Metro, or just old school drag and drop through the file system -- which I assume means that basically anything would work even old school s*** like Winamp?

I yoinked my music from my old iPhone to my work computer using SharePod and loaded it into the phone from there.
02:20pm 03/12/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3804 posts
$696 from JB-Hifi. They don't have any other colours, they are only allowed to sell black. Telstra store said they not allowed to sell outright for another few months even to Telstra customers, have to sign up for new plan or renew existing.. What gay s***..

Anyone know where I could buy outright in any colour other than black ffs?
12:51pm 04/12/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7698 posts
$696 from JB-Hifi. They don't have any other colours, they are only allowed to sell black. Telstra store said they not allowed to sell outright for another few months even to Telstra customers, have to sign up for new plan or renew existing.. What gay s***..

Anyone know where I could buy outright in any colour other than black ffs?



http://www.mobicity.com.au/nokia-lumia-920.html

Not the cheapest but you can have any colours.
12:58pm 04/12/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3805 posts
yeah saw that but all the other colours are for pre-order, god knows how long.
01:37pm 04/12/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1432 posts
Just got mine from HN (last in stock), but they also have 12% off today :) So you get it for just under 700$ but also get a free voice hands free device :D
02:15pm 04/12/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3806 posts
HN have different colours?
02:49pm 04/12/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19301 posts
nice thats cheap. i paid 789 from mobicity.
03:35pm 04/12/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1434 posts
HN have different colours?


Yellow and black off and on atm, other colours still waiting on coming in
03:56pm 04/12/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7699 posts
I'm getting mine from our Telstra corporate, and I picked, yep Black heh. Boring i know but I really don't want crazy colour for business phone.
04:50pm 04/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13189 posts
I went black too.
04:57pm 04/12/12 Permalink
flatbeat
Brisbane, Queensland
615 posts
Still waiting have been put on lists from hn and Telstra... Want to test the handset before I buy it otherwise I'd order online...
08:11pm 04/12/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7537 posts
I'm waiting a little while for a white 920. I'm not fussed about timeframe - actually I'm trying to figure out some contract/service quality issues with Telstra before I go buy a new handset.
08:33pm 04/12/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1435 posts
One thing I've found doing the switch over is getting contact data over is a b****. Oh, and get really used to putting in your bloody skydrive username and password every 5 minutes while your setting it up.

Apart from that there is some nice stuff, already NES, SMS and Gameboy emulators which work very well indeed :)
09:18pm 04/12/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3807 posts
My last 4 iphones have been black, so f*****g over it. White is a bit girly for me, I only feel that way cause most girls i've noticed have white phones. red/yellow are to "poser" for me so that only leaves grey and I think it'll fit the bill nicely.
09:28pm 04/12/12 Permalink
paveway
Brisbane, Queensland
17563 posts
It's an iphone, posing is what it's all about

White samsung galaxy s3 was really the choice for me of the colours
09:35pm 04/12/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7700 posts
My last 4 iphones have been black, so f*****g over it. White is a bit girly for me, I only feel that way cause most girls i've noticed have white phones. red/yellow are to "poser" for me so that only leaves grey and I think it'll fit the bill nicely.


Yeah fair enough, I was going to get the Grey one as well from what I've heard colours other than black and cyan (http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/4/3456914/cyan-lumia-920-att-hands-on) will have glossy finish, which means finger print magnets and scratch magnet. And since I don't dig Cyan or gloss finish, there wasn't other choice. Not sure about Grey though but I as I haven't seen that in the flesh. I've seen the white one at Telstra's shop and it was pretttty glossy...
10:24pm 04/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13191 posts
Black is the new black.
09:40am 05/12/12 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
36592 posts
Played with one of these briefly yesterday. Pretty solid and hefty unit but looks like a nice phone. The guy who owned it raved about it; he showed some of the phone stuff which looked pretty awesome.
09:47am 05/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13192 posts
Yeh it is chunky and particularly compared to the iPhone5 heavy.

For reference, the 920 is 185 grams, the iPhone5 is 112 grams, the iPhone4S is 140 grams and the S3 is 133 grams. I don't personally find the 185g weight to be an issue although it has surprising heft when you pick it up and combined with the large screen gives it a bit of a brick feel. That said I have gumby hands and I think the extra weight may actually help me to keep hold of it.

So I've had it a week now, some thoughts:

- I was initially concerned about battery, but now that honeymoon usage has settled and the battery has cycled a few times its much the same as my old iPhone.
- It gets almost disturbingly warm when the GPS is in use. As in kind of hot, and sucks down charge like mad. Hopefully this is a software issue.
- No VPN. This was a sting when I realised but working around it. Coming in a new update apparently.
- No angle brackets like > or < in the text editor. This is dumb and makes formatting QGL posts really hard, couldn't set up quoted text in the DOTA post yesterday properly.
- Speaking of the editor, the forms s*** needs work unless I'm missing something. Often the submit button hides under the text box and you have to tap somewhere off-form to get the box to f*** off so you can scroll to the next field or submit. Really, really needs a 'next form field' button like iOS has.
- The big whinge about WP8 I've found to be (for me) bulls***. There's enough apps on the store to do what I need to do.
- Notifications are a little awkward still in WP8. Why can't I click or drag the icon on the lock screen and go straight to whatever you're telling me about?

The above is a list of s*** that annoys me, but the total experience has been great.

I sat in a neurologist's office for 2 hours yesterday with only my 920 as company and it (it, baconit (reddit reader) and youtube) kept me largely entertained. Really appreciated the larger screen in that situation, was a big improvement over the iphone last time I had to sit through the waiting room game!
11:09am 05/12/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7701 posts
Regarding the weight, I personally found I quite like the weight. Problem with phones being too light these day is that it's also very thin, which I find it very easy for it slip out of hands and soft of hard to hold up to speak (yes I do not use hands free cord nor do I listen to music with my phone).

I actually prefer the phone's back to be slightly rounded/curved and non-slip (i.e. not f*****g glossy) so it molded to the palm better and makes it a more comfortable to use.

I'm getting mine next week, can't wait!
12:02pm 05/12/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3809 posts
I like weight, when I hold the S3 it feels cheap plasticy, when I hold iphone it feels solid and quality. That's just me.
02:01pm 05/12/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7702 posts
Got mine today, so far so good. A couple of "annoying" things in some apps that I'll probably get used to (hopefully). I like how the contacts / facebook etc are merged together, very slick. The whole thing feels super snappy.

The only disappointment for me was that Amazon Kindle (not MS' fault) app is still behind other leading platforms somewhat for example, there's no dictionary (WTF?), or use volume buttons to toggle the page turn. Other than that it works great.

The screen is pretty amazing quality. The colours are vivid and very clear, love it.

Weight wise, slightly heavier than SGS2 but I quite like it. I've installed the following apps so far:

- facebook
- linkedin
- nextgen reader (Google ready thingy paid apps $1.99)
- amazon kindle
- all the nokia's app suits
- flashlight xt
- google
- legimi ebook reader
- shopping list
- NAB (for online banking)

Pretty much all I need really. Loving the live tiles etc. Lets see how long the batteries last with all these tiles flipping around and getting push emails etc.
03:53pm 06/12/12 Permalink
kos
Germany
2375 posts
- No angle brackets like > or < in the text editor. This is dumb and makes formatting QGL posts really hard, couldn't set up quoted text in the DOTA post yesterday properly.

What do you mean 'in the text editor'? The system keyboard should be able to do just about everything..

From here:
To find more symbols
Can't find the symbol you're looking for? Tap More http://cmsresources.windowsphone.com/windowsphone/en-us/How-to/wp7/inline/keyboard-screen-more-key.png from the numbers keyboard to show more symbols, including foreign currency symbols, mathematical symbols, and a few other useful ones.

To find still more symbols
Some of the symbol keys can bring up yet more symbols. Tap and hold to see more options. For example, if you tap and hold the left parentheses key (, you'll see left angle bracket <, left brace {, and left square bracket [, too. Or tap and hold the $ key to see more options for currency symbols.
08:00pm 06/12/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7553 posts
Holy gravedig, Batman - how did this thread end up on page five!?

Anyway, for my 920 yesterday, after a long, drawn-out battle with Telstra.
There's a number of niggling issues I have with it, but in particular I'm finding it hard to get over the sheer size of the device.

The keyboard needs a lot of work, and so too do many of the apps.
On the plus side, it's not a f*****g iDevice which now makes me want to kill someone.
10:29am 14/12/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19339 posts
The 920 is s*** hot. That's all I can say.
10:54am 14/12/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7704 posts
After using for a about a week these are the things that need improving in my opinion:

- Facebook app, it's not terrible but not great either. Certainly better than the one on Android (though the latest update on Android v2.0 is prettty amazing now), still fairly slow when you get to the end of the news feed and it always jumped back to the top when the news refreshes to you have to scroll down again etc... Doesn't have live tile support other than basic notifications..wtf Microsoft?. Luckily I don't use this much any way since I just use the WP8 People's hub to get my aggregated social media feeds (FB, twitter, Linkedin).

- Some background apps will really f***ed with your batteries and performance. I found one app basically made my phone useless for ages. I had a little panic and though the phone packed it in as it was so slow and the screen got really unresponsive. Reboot a few times but still the same. So I uninstalled a few new apps I did that day and found that one of the app was causing this... a bit of a worry but really not WP8's fault. But since we can't "see" (at I don't know how) how background apps are using resources on the phone like you can with task manager on Android this is a problem for debugging problem apps.

- Kindle app, needs a lot of work. No dictionary look up (WTF?) no page turn using volume key :/ I'm sure Amazon is on to it.

- Got a chance to use the Nokia Drive the other day. No issues there, super accurate and work very, very well. Just as good and accurate as Google's map / navigation but it's quicker as it has off line map. It also has other cool stuff like current speed limits on the road and the speed you're traveling etc. Also if navigating in 3D it also shows you the major landmark buildings in 3D - nice touch. Some how it also still works even I was in the Clem7 tunnel? Not sure if I was imaging it but it still shows us traveling etc..

- Camera pretty good, took a few photos from x-mas party and the anti shake thing work ok for the most part. Still a couple of blurry photos but not a bad one. I might have been using it wrong as I didn't do an auto focus thing before I took the photo (apparently?).

- Skydrive app is ok but for some reason I can't view photos I uploaded on my phone... wtf.

- Other than that the batteries etc have been great the aggregated email works well though I wish there was a way to display all unread items from all selected synced folders in one place. Currently I still have to drill into each folders to see the messages as I have Exchange rules to sort my emails for server reports etc. Not a biggie but would be nice.

- Weight, it is noticeably heavier but after a while you just get use to it. The screen is pretty amazingly readable in the direct sunlight which I thought was very well done. And the screen is pretty amazingly good quality in general anyway.

- Browser well it's IE10, which is ok. I wish I had support of Flash so I can see some embedded stuff on pages.. and a private browsing mode would be nice. I wonder if anyone will ever port a new browser on WP8 (or is it even possible?).

- WiFi this gets a bit annoying as it seems to go to sleep if the phone screen is off/lock.. wtf. This will be fix with the up coming update (along with VPN again WTF?). Also sometimes if you're out of range of the WiFi you paired with it will take time for it to realise that and to use Mobile data instead... kinda annoying.

- SMS/phone call work as they should no issues. Good clear speaker etc.

- Keyboard. Woks ok not the best one I used, I wish the Swiftkey guys would port their app to this platform (pretty please :)). Can't reconfigure keyboard layout.. which sucks.

Overall I would rate this entire experience as a positive one, really loving the smoothness and seamless integration of the Wp8 system. Live tiles are cool (if the apps written support it).

I didn't even miss my SGS2 :) Would rate it as 8/10
06:14pm 15/12/12 Permalink
RockitMan
Brisbane, Queensland
6448 posts
I went with the HTC 8X instead if the 920 as I wanted something smaller and don't really care about the camera. Was previously on iPhone 3g.

So far I really like it. Fits very nicely in pocket, fantastic screen, wp8 operating system is excellent and just more "FUN" than ios. Camera takes excellent day time pics but s***house night time pics.

device as a whole is super fast and smooth, no waiting for anything.

main downsides are the phone is very difficult to hold due to the thin edges, and I seem to be making a lot more mistakes while typing which aren't auto fixed compared to iPhone.

oh yeah the simple folder setup when plugging into PC is awesome, I hated iTunes.
07:06pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13230 posts
I seem to be making a lot more mistakes while typing which aren't auto fixed compared to iPhone

I'm an ex-iPhone user, had trouble with the keyboard until I went to 2-thumbs instead of one hand entry.

Also the predictive text is amazing. Its not just predicting the word you are in the middle of typing, also the sentence (as in predicting the next word without you typing anything!). Keep an eye on the suggested words as shortcuts and you'll be amazed at how many taps you can save.
07:28pm 15/12/12 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7705 posts
So Facebook app got an update today, and it's actually now much speedier to use i.e. it's usable now. Also Whatsapp is on WP8 now as well.
10:41am 16/12/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8269 posts
Walked into Optus store today, apparently I would have to pay my remaining $800 contract in order to upgrade to the Nokia Lumia 920. Sucks, thought they'd be able to just give me a new phone and maybe pay a bit extra but nope. Guess I'm going S3 or the Nexus 4.
09:03pm 16/12/12 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3823 posts
Also the predictive text is amazing. Its not just predicting the word you are in the middle of typing, also the sentence (as in predicting the next word without you typing anything!). Keep an eye on the suggested words as shortcuts and you'll be amazed at how many taps you can save.


this sounds good, the predictive text on iphone was useless for me given the speed I type at.

Walked into Optus store today, apparently I would have to pay my remianing $800 contract


when does your contract end?
05:55am 17/12/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8270 posts
when does your contract end?

Something like 2015, was a special 2 year contract but for $50 and unlimited texts/calls.
09:59am 17/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13235 posts
2015? Did you sign the 2-year contract in the future and come back to try and get out of it?

Trap for new time travellers.

Edit: Also Nokia Drive got its first trial by fire last week, was in Brissy on business and I don't really know my way around town well.

It really sucked down the juice (the weekend update seems to help with that) but the accuracy and reliability of the thing was really solid, couldn't fault it.
10:05am 17/12/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7556 posts
Problems that are irritating me:
- Sensitivity of the buttons and touch-area - it's really difficult to press the 'notifications' icon in the Facebook app
- The 3G/LTE/WiFi indication isn't always visible. This means when you drop off WiFi you don't know, so you're chewing through expensive, fast LTE bandwidth.
- It's chewing through the battery.
- Fonts are way too big in the Facebook app and all the Twitter apps I've found. So you just can't consume as much content quickly as I could on iPhone.
- There's no quick way to scroll to top in apps. On iOS it was a click near the top bar. Can't find an equivalent in WP8.
- No rotate-lock. Imagine using your iPhone lying on your side in bed, and the damn thing wants to keep spinning on you.
11:59am 17/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13238 posts
I've found that coming from iPhone I had to adjust my touch-point target further up, especially for small targets like the FB notification icon. Its not a sensitivity issue, its targetting.
01:43pm 17/12/12 Permalink
RockitMan
Brisbane, Queensland
6449 posts
Good call on the predictive words - a-ma-zing.
04:11pm 17/12/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8272 posts
2015? Did you sign the 2-year contract in the future and come back to try and get out of it?Trap for new time travellers.Edit: Also Nokia Drive got its first trial by fire last week, was in Brissy on business and I don't really know my way around town well. It really sucked down the juice (the weekend update seems to help with that) but the accuracy and reliability of the thing was really solid, couldn't fault it.
Heh, 2014 my bad. Forgot we were in 2012 for a while there. Eh I'll just find a cheap S3, seems to be a good bang-for-buck phone unless Google's Nexus 4 ever comes back into stock.
06:40pm 17/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13345 posts
Not sure they'll survive? Though it would make sense for MS to buy them out at that stage to get all their IP and patents.
http://users.on.net/~deadsimple/images/nokia.png


Heh, you shoulda bought into the hype parabol, coulda made epic bank in 3 months!

http://i.imgur.com/w0PeE.png
01:54pm 11/01/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3652 posts
ausgamers clearly has more influance on market than hippies with fake ANZ statements
02:11pm 11/01/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19408 posts
i love my nokia 920. it's a cainer device. i just found an rdp app for it holy s***.
02:14pm 11/01/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8397 posts
Does anyone know if the Windows Phone 7.5 app market gets Windows 8 apps at all? Or would they be version locked?
02:21pm 11/01/13 Permalink
kr0wb4r
Brisbane, Queensland
1216 posts
Had mine for a few days now - loving it.
02:37pm 11/01/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13348 posts
Does anyone know if the Windows Phone 7.5 app market gets Windows 8 apps at all? Or would they be version locked?

Don't think so. I think 7.8 may give the developers more opportunity to target older phones but WP8-only apps won't suddenly become available.
02:42pm 11/01/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19410 posts
windows 8 apps dont work on windows 7.
04:04pm 11/01/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8398 posts
Ah bummer. The marketplace on my Lumia 900 is becoming quite deserted. Think I might just bite the bullet and go Samsung Galaxy S3.
04:32pm 11/01/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3653 posts
or.........a new lumia?
05:17pm 11/01/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13351 posts
He has contract issues.
06:02pm 11/01/13 Permalink
copuis
Brisbane, Queensland
3656 posts
well the sony xperia range (and the once top of the range s that I have) are now pretty cheap, screen is great, and clear,

good phone for the price, and jelly bean should be on it soon

soon

anyday now

maybe
06:08pm 11/01/13 Permalink
parabol
Brisbane, Queensland
7419 posts
Heh, you shoulda bought into the hype parabol, coulda made epic bank in 3 months!

Lol yeah I was thinking that the other day. Quite surprised they have been able to maintain a relatively high value (was expecting merely a short spike). Then again this is only relative - with this boost they are still only at about 10% of what they were 5 years ago, so long way to go.

I guess these Lumia models are Nokia's last attempt to avoid bankruptcy. I'm hoping they'll survive just to keep pressure on Apple and Samsung.
06:24pm 11/01/13 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3837 posts
Finally got the Lumia 920 in grey, issue is I'm with Telstra and it's saying it's on 3G. I thought this phone and Telstra are both 4G?
08:57am 18/01/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19435 posts
The 920 is 4G but that service only available in extremely limited areas I.e. CBD. Otherwise it will revert back to 3G. So blame Telstra.
09:21am 18/01/13 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1490 posts
I've all but given up on the 920. Sick of the crashes, Nokia Drive Beta is in a perpetual state of "resuming", the music/podcast player is awful in managing my podcast library, the phone is constantly on *heart* battery life, the live-tiles - which i love, are for the most part never upto date, and every morning I wake up I am greeted with 10 messages about peoples birthdays who I don't give a f*** about. Oh and finding a car dock for it that isn't balls and actually plays music via RF+USB is impossible. Oh and sync'ing is pretty damn awful. Nokia Drive is also stupid, it works well when it works, but its reverse-geocaching lookup is ridiculous. Where the f*** are phone favourites, and why can I not scroll to the top of a scrollview with one tap. Also I actually want the status bar items at the top to always be there - I find it important to know if I have reception/wifi, and what my battery life is. I do like the mail app though, I will say that.

Now looking at grabbing a s3 until apple sorts their UI s*** out.
09:52am 18/01/13 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1491 posts
Oh, and Nokia/MS should have class action bought against them for delaying Portico on non-AT&T phones, especially for unlocked/unbranded phones (where there is no excuse of the "we are working with carriers" bulls***)
09:54am 18/01/13 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1492 posts
i love my nokia 920. it's a cainer device. i just found an rdp app for it holy s***.


There has been a crapload of these apps for iOS/Android forever.
09:55am 18/01/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19436 posts
I have experienced the 920 intermittently shuts off for no explainable reason (maybe once a fortnight) which requires a soft reset, but then it's all good again.

it is annoying that the live tiles for most apps dont actually do anything "live". i don't use a lot of aps. there are a number of basic UI features that MS really just had to carry over from other OSs and yet they didn't. a big one for me is silent ring mode with no vibrate.

my single biggest annoynance is the phone directory - when i am searching for people to ring, i don't want all my facebook and twitter contacts to come up too. I will never want to ring them!!!

on the plus side the broswer is lightning fast and the camera delivers amazing shots. phone call qualitty is great as is bluetooth stability. the screen clarity and sensitivity are impressive. the email and touch screen for typing i was skeptical but it is way faster with the autocorrect and autosuggest.
10:25am 18/01/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13377 posts
Haven't had many stability issues, and no problems with Drive (works perfectly whenever and wherever I've needed it).

I've needed to soft reset twice to get carrier reception back (something that used to happen periodically with my iPhone so its probably a Cairns thing) and had one unexplained crash.

For battery I get through a day+ with normal usage, will drain about 40% overnight on idle. Last night:
http://i.imgur.com/mNbrD.jpg

So without any charging and normal use last night (email checking (exchange push), SMS, looking s*** up on the web, wi-fi left on) I unplugged at 6pm and at 9:30am I'm at 55%. I wouldn't mind a little more life but I can personally live with that (and if I get caught out the heart thing extends battery life considerably).

The favourites thing threw me, like infi when I connected facebook I ended up with a huge list of callees. You can set up a Group though and add people who are important to that which works pretty well, you can customise the group display order so your most-called are at the top. Another option is to add the person as a live tile to the phone itself.

Something else I didn't realise for a long time is that if you click on the index letter in a list (like 'a' in your contacts) it brings up a screen with a shortcut to all letters in the alphabet. So to find Derek Zoolander you can hit the 'a' button, then 'd' and you are at the d point in the list.
10:49am 18/01/13 Permalink
trog
AGN Admin
Brisbane, Queensland
36670 posts
The favourites thing threw me, like infi when I connected facebook I ended up with a huge list of callees.
Is it not an option to NOT sync those from FB? When you activate FB on Android it is optional whether or not you want to sync with your contact list.
10:57am 18/01/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13378 posts
Is it not an option to NOT sync those from FB? When you activate FB on Android it is optional whether or not you want to sync with your contact list.

No idea, I don't remember when I set it up, but looking in settings there isn't a flag for it. You can just not add your Facebook account to WP8, the only real reason to do it is to integrate it with your People (contacts list basically although its extended in WP8 to different areas).

If you don't want to do that then you could just use the FB application?

Hmm, maybe I'll write an app this weekend that just displays your People who you have phone numbers for!? :)
11:02am 18/01/13 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7711 posts
Yeah after about 3 weeks of having the Lumia I don't have much instabilities either. I get 10-11 hours of usual usage before it gets to ~50% percent so that's pretty much on par with other smart phone with large screen.

The one thing I noticed that sometimes the phone get very hot browsing the net or Facebook _but_ not all the time. It's really strange sometimes I can be browsing a lot and the phone stays fairly cool but sometimes it just get quite warm and I can't really tell what's causing it. Sometimes I'd turn if off and back on to make sure whatever that was in the background didn't chew up all my batteries by not releasing the CPU usage or going to sleep mode etc.

Though using Drive always make the phone hot but usually it cool down quick as soon as you shut it off.

Other than that, the rest seems alright I'm sort of used to the WP8 idiosyncrasies now and found everything is still very smooth and easy to use. Portico update should be good to fix some of the small annoyances. Though MS really need to get their arse into gear and finish and release the notification centre. Live tiles are good but if you get lots of notifications it really suck a lot.
11:04am 18/01/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8426 posts
You can choose to not sync Facebook contacts, but it kind of makes it useless because the phone OS itself is so integrated into social networking. Also I have the Lumia 900 and have been experiencing consistent crashes, or just decides to power off when it receives messages, which makes me think it's either dying or linked in some way to a recent update.

Also does the S3 have sturdy car handset holders? Need to retire my GPS or else it will cost me $200 for new maps.
11:18am 18/01/13 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1493 posts
Haven't had many stability issues, and no problems with Drive (works perfectly whenever and wherever I've needed it).

I have experienced the 920 intermittently shuts off for no explainable reason (maybe once a fortnight) which requires a soft reset, but then it's all good again.


Mine is fairly intermittent at being intermittent. It was crashy as hell the first week, then good, now its gone back to crashy. Its definitely not an isolated issue, and sounds like Portico hasn't fixed it completely. I've lost track of the number of times I have pulled my phone out of my pocket to see that its locked up and when I restart it I've had 5 missed calls. Straight out unacceptable. I've now trained myself to check every 30 minutes to make sure it hasn't crashed on me.

As for drive, its more setting the location that drives me mental. I had to pickup pizza for a friend yesterday and I kept typing in "Dominos Brassall Queensland" and it was insistant on directing me to Dominos stores in the UK. I ended up googling for it, finding the specific address and copy/pasting it in. At this point (because I have disabled Drive background service for battery life) it got stuck in "resuming" state and I had to restart the phone to get it to work.

Is it not an option to NOT sync those from FB? When you activate FB on Android it is optional whether or not you want to sync with your contact list.


It is, but its the one of the main selling points of the phone in the first place. Though I do regret doing it, maybe my experience would be a bit better without it.

The favourites thing threw me, like infi when I connected facebook I ended up with a huge list of callees. You can set up a Group though and add people who are important to that which works pretty well, you can customise the group display order so your most-called are at the top. Another option is to add the person as a live tile to the phone itself.


I started doing this, way too much effort though unless you only ever ring 2 people. I really liked the idea of livetile groups, but again its kind of like Google Circles, great in theory but too much effort.

Something else I didn't realise for a long time is that if you click on the index letter in a list (like 'a' in your contacts) it brings up a screen with a shortcut to all letters in the alphabet. So to find Derek Zoolander you can hit the 'a' button, then 'd' and you are at the d point in the list.


Yes, it makes scrollviews a little easier to deal with, but it still definitely feels like a tacked on usability feature rather than part of the core UX.
12:35pm 18/01/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13382 posts
Did you install a custom ROM? Portico isn't out yet in AU.

Got me all excited there for a minute :(
05:01pm 18/01/13 Permalink
csirac
Brisbane, Queensland
2814 posts
bumpity bump.

The gf is thinking of selling her iPhone 5 and getting the 920 (The colour choices seems to have made a big part of the decision making)

How's everyone's 920 going? Opinion on the app store and any niggling problems? Battery life?

Cheers!
12:37am 30/01/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19469 posts
Loving mine. The niggling issues raised above are still there but overall its a top phone and very solid build.
12:45am 30/01/13 Permalink
csirac
Brisbane, Queensland
2815 posts
Im on android so pretty much a huge nokia noob but will there be update issues with the lumia 920 like there are with all android devices minus the nexus line? Are OS updates for the 920 OTA?
01:40am 30/01/13 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1496 posts

How's everyone's 920 going? Opinion on the app store and any niggling problems? Battery life?


App store is average, I mean there is choice there, the quality isn't as high but its getting there. But be prepared to be waiting 6 months for ports of iOS/Android apps.

Im on android so pretty much a huge nokia noob but will there be update issues with the lumia 920 like there are with all android devices minus the nexus line? Are OS updates for the 920 OTA?


So far what I have seen is that its incredibly bad, worse than Android. You have the proprietaryness of iOS with the fragmentation/update issues of Android. Theoretically WP8 should be good in this regard, but Microsoft are handling it incredibly badly IMHO.

My review:
Don't even bother with it, I have pretty much written it off at this stage. BB10 looks good, Android is getting better, iOS may have a renascence if Ive can use Photoshop. Its the palm pre of 2012 - great underlying concept/OS/hardware but came out half cooked.

Background: I spent $700 buying one outright.
07:43am 30/01/13 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7715 posts
So far what I have seen is that its incredibly bad, worse than Android. You have the proprietaryness of iOS with the fragmentation/update issues of Android. Theoretically WP8 should be good in this regard, but Microsoft are handling it incredibly badly IMHO.

My review:
Don't even bother with it, I have pretty much written it off at this stage. BB10 looks good, Android is getting better, iOS may have a renascence if Ive can use Photoshop. Its the palm pre of 2012 - great underlying concept/OS/hardware but came out half cooked.

Background: I spent $700 buying one outright.


You must have pretty bad experience with yours sorry to hear, luckily mine's been ok. I take your points on apps quality, though it doesn't impact on me directly as I don't play games or use many other 3rd party apps. I agree the apps I use, the quality could be better as it lags behind their counter parts - for example FB apps (released be MS ironically) is pissed poor, Amazon Kindle app - again poor (doesn't even have dictionary look up WTF?).

Also agreed, OTA updates would have to be the worse of all. MS promises we'll all get the updates "direct" from MS but yet the releases are still slow for anyone outside of US and EU. The latest updates has been out for a month now and we still don't have it. I know they have to "test" it but why does it take so long? Apparently it's the carrier that holding this up - I thought WP8 was supposed to by pass carriers with updates? I'm very disappointed with this aspect the most actually.

I also agreed BB10 looks awesome at this stage. I will eat a humble pie as I am one of those "RIM is dead" nay sayers, if BB10 is a huge hit. I really liked the look of the X10 (one with QWERTY kb and touch screen) and the new OS. If it can sync with Exchange natively (as rumored) then I might even try it out.
08:01am 30/01/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13403 posts
Yeh I am still liking my phone (and it gives me no grief) but I miss global, instant iOS updates. If MS want to play with the big dogs they need to get onto that, but I guess they only really care about US/EU at the moment.
10:03am 30/01/13 Permalink
csirac
Brisbane, Queensland
2816 posts
That OTA issue is quite concerning. That would f*** me off to no end if updates were out and i couldnt get to them. Whole reason i went with a nexus instead of the other trash android phones.
10:40am 30/01/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13404 posts
Heh just checked and there's now an update available for mine...
10:45am 30/01/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8472 posts
I'm about ready to throw my Lumia 900 at the wall, constantly rebooting every 15-20 minutes now. It seems like a reoccuring issue at the moment with 900 and 920 so hopefully it gets updated, but I don't think I'll last long enough with how cheap the S3 is and rumours of Nexus 4 coming back into stock soon.

I will say, the app market for Windows is atrocious. I'm not sure about Windows 8, but on Windows 7.5 it is nigh impossible to find anything relevant and I had to initially download another app to filter the shop properly which is still a pain. Currently no big browsers are on there (at least for 900) so you are stuck with either IE or some terribly annoying "metro" browser.
11:17am 30/01/13 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7716 posts
Heh just checked and there's now an update available for mine...


Holy s*** Hog, you're right mine is updating as we speak!!!
11:22am 30/01/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13405 posts
In WP8 you can have any browser you like, as long as its IE.

Out of curiosity, can you install IE on Android? I know you can get an (awful iirc) Opera on iOS.
11:39am 30/01/13 Permalink
Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
5642 posts
Out of curiosity, can you install IE on Android?

Haha, you're joking, right? IE barely runs on Windows platforms.
11:43am 30/01/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13406 posts
Haha, you're joking, right? IE barely runs on Windows platforms.

I get that its cool to hate IE (and I dont personally use it as my main browser) but the later versions are fine.
11:51am 30/01/13 Permalink
csirac
Brisbane, Queensland
2817 posts
So did this new update bring it in line with the US/EU?
06:35pm 30/01/13 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7717 posts
So did this new update bring it in line with the US/EU?


Yeah
06:55pm 30/01/13 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3860 posts
Just noticed that my camera roll photo's on sky drive are a lot smaller than on phone.

For example, photo on my Lumia is 1.89MB, on sky drive it's 202KB..

So if my Lumia dies in a fire, I'm stuck with resized copies of photo's?
02:09pm 13/02/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19507 posts
hmmm that shouldn't be the case, maybe there is a setting in the skydrive backup options not to resize.

when i look at the windows phone help there should be two options in settings> backup> photos: good quality and best quality. but i can't see them on my 920...
02:25pm 13/02/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8552 posts
Updated my Lumia 900 to Windows 7.8 and I like the newer tile look and more colours to choose from which gives off the Windows 8 vibe. Though it still hasn't stopped my phone from rebooting constantly so I can't really be bothered anymore, might take it into Optus and see what they will do.
02:30pm 13/02/13 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7722 posts
Just noticed that my camera roll photo's on sky drive are a lot smaller than on phone.For example, photo on my Lumia is 1.89MB, on sky drive it's 202KB..So if my Lumia dies in a fire, I'm stuck with resized copies of photo's?


Humm all of my photos' file size matches on my phone and skydrive. Apparently it'll only upload full res if you upload to Skydrive over wifi:

http://forums.wpcentral.com/nokia-lumia-920/214528-no-option-set-upload-quality.html

I usually upload my via WiFi (although I checked one I uploaded via 4G and they're the same) and via Photo hubs (always) and not automatically upload when taking photos, so that's maybe why?
02:46pm 13/02/13 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3861 posts
Apparently it'll only upload full res if you upload to Skydrive over wifi


I can't choose method to upload with. I wonder why you are uploading at full res and I'm uploading at low res, what makes you so special lol.
03:35pm 13/02/13 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7723 posts
I can't choose method to upload with. I wonder why you are uploading at full res and I'm uploading at low res, what makes you so special lol.


I meant to say it'll only upload full res if you do it via Photos hub and (probably) over WiFi. If you choose to do automatic upload to Skydrive in your camera app then it'll need to be on WiFi to upload full res. I know it sucks but I can see some sense for MS for doing it otherwise if you take heaps of pictures and auto upload them all you'll be f***ed over with your data charges.
05:00pm 13/02/13 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3862 posts
My phone is on WiFi just about all the time except for when I'm driving. It doesn't make sense, it should have an option to upload at full res only when connected to WiFi only.

oh and sorry for dumb question but what is photos hub?
05:11pm 13/02/13 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7724 posts
My phone is on WiFi just about all the time except for when I'm driving. It doesn't make sense, it should have an option to upload at full res only when connected to WiFi only.oh and sorry for dumb question but what is photos hub?


It's the built in app called "Photos". You know where you click to view the photos on your phones that you've taken via cameras etc? As for uploading, I think if you select to autoupload when you take the photo then it has to be on WiFi for it to upload full res - at least that's what I got from that link I sent you.

I don't auto upload photos when I take photos, I go to the Photos hub then manually upload them to Skydrive when I'm at home. So far all the photos are in full res in Skydrive.

If you're alright doing what I do and still get low res images in your skydrive then this may be something else :/
05:40pm 13/02/13 Permalink
maRtz
Brisbane, Queensland
3863 posts
yeah auto upload on, meh I'll give up. Every single photo is resized. Manual upload it is then >:(
06:57pm 13/02/13 Permalink
csirac
Brisbane, Queensland
2856 posts
bump!

Anyone on the 920 experiencing the phone turning itself off, and not turning itself back on. Gf is having an issue where the phone turns itself off while she sleeps and it doesnt turn itself back on...which is a pretty f***ed thing if you rely on it for the alarm.
11:15am 22/03/13 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8815 posts
Well csirac I still get the random rebooting, but I've never experienced it turning off and then not turning back on. Sounds like a fair few issues pertaining to Windows phones in general sadly.

With the reveal of the S4, I'm now tempted to wait for that, but at the same time I don't think I could wait that long just because this phone is starting to really annoy me. So should I grab an S3 or a Nexus 4 now, or wait for the S4?
11:38am 22/03/13 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
19646 posts
Mine runs like a dream. This phone is the full package for me. It has settled down to be very reliable, I don't know if there has been some software upgrades recently maybe.
11:53am 22/03/13 Permalink
Opec
Brisbane, Queensland
7762 posts
bump!Anyone on the 920 experiencing the phone turning itself off, and not turning itself back on. Gf is having an issue where the phone turns itself off while she sleeps and it doesnt turn itself back on...which is a pretty f***ed thing if you rely on it for the alarm.


Nah I haven't had those and I run stock everything. I obviously updated to Portico but that's about it. Maybe take it back and get it swap out ?

The phone's been running great for me. I could get through the day easily with it.
02:21pm 22/03/13 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13673 posts
Still happy with mine, only problem is I managed to scratch the screen by allowing wife to store it in her handbag.

Sigh.
02:54pm 22/03/13 Permalink
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