The protests in sydney against a film has turned violent with police dogs being used against protestors and them being pepper sprayed and several arrested
Late in the afternoon a lone man from outside the group shouted: "Shame on you for promoting murder in the name of religion." The crowd swarmed at him attacking him and sparking a second wave of violent clashes with police. Police rushed to the man's aide and dragged him out of the park under a rain of waterbottles, sticks and abuse.
And this is why people shouldn't believe in unverified magic stories, because there's no reality check in the race to the bottom of unverifiable lies, and these manipulative social power structures / cults will evolve to require that their hosts defend them against mere criticism eventually >_< (my opinion anyway). It's supposedly the world's fastest growing religion as well.
On a related note, was recently watching this video where Neil deGrasse Tyson was highlighting that global Islamic culture has produced only two nobel science prize winners in history, despite having a quarter of the world's population, due to becoming anti-evidence, which I found interesting.
I was hearing reports on the radio 7 people have been killed over this overseas. For one crap little youtube video somebody totally irrelevant to anything made...
I was hearing reports on the radio 7 people have been killed over this overseas. For one crap little youtube video somebody totally irrelevant to anything made...
Ultimately, looking at Iran and Afghanistan early and mid last century compared to now, and the way that Egypt is going, it seems that the oppressive violent Islam is always going to win out ('faith' based ideologies can shame all those don't believe the most fucked up superstitions with chants like this, I experienced it in christianity as well). Pakistanis are also reporting that shit is getting worse there, with poisonings and beheadings of girls in schools to prevent female education, etc.
I am just glad I am part of a pure white race which has never committed a single act of organised violent behaviour such as this.
When people are being dicks, I call them dicks. Regardless of their race or creed. Not sure why you're so PC on clear cut issues like this. The people that are violently protesting are clearly chucklefucks.
They all look like the usual cockheads that turn out to a protest about anything at all to start shit, just from a Muslim background in this instance. A 'couple of hundred' from a huge population of Muslim people in the Sydney area means a million and one Muslim Australians didn't feel the need to protest.
Exaggerated number used to emphasise that a large number of Muslim Australians didn't gather to demonstrate, peacefully or not without bothering to google. Just the usual cockheads where any excuse will do.
Exaggerated number used to emphasise that a large number of Muslim Australians didn't gather to demonstrate, peacefully or not without bothering to google. Just the usual cockheads where any excuse will do.
I have never seen any protest in Australia with people holding signs calling for the beheading of anybody.
weren't there a bunch of people dressed in the aussie flag calling for violence against some race/religion or other a few years ago?
The cronulla riots? I wasn't a fan of those either, but they were calling for a stop to Muslims harassing people, calling girls immodest on the beach, telling them that they deserved to be raped, etc, so people claimed, after some middle eastern people assaulted life savers.
i.e. Not at all the same thing (but still terrible). Can you show me where anybody called for anything like beheading?
Extremist isn't a useful or practical word imo, since if one person says that 1+2=3, and another says that it equals 10, both are now extremists (i.e. it's always relevant, and if you remove extremists, than you just create new extremes by moving the end points of claims).
Sorry Nerfy can you explain more please? How does what you just said hold any sort of reference to extremists and of course everything is relative and all that jazz but seriously... signs asking for beheading? You don't say that's extreme?
Even if you want to take the stance of "in their country" etc etc - fuck that. This is Australia and while we embrace multiculturalism I don't believe beheading is a part of a culture we would welcome.
I didn't mean to excuse or endorse them at all, I just meant that "extreme" is always only relevant to everybody else, so I don't think that it's useful to say that we should simply deal with anybody who is "extreme" (e.g. the first person to say that the sun didn't go around the earth would have had an "extreme" position) - rather we need to check claims' merit, not relative normality.
e.g. Not wanting to even imprison homosexuals in Iran might be called an "extremist" position there, since beheading and hanging is the norm. i.e. I have a problem with these people not because they are extremists by current standards, but specifically because of what they do by unchanging standards.
is it just me or with every post nerfy makes, he comes across as more insane? I'm pretty sure he's just trolling now. No one can be that much of a dick and it not be on purpose.
Kinda sad that people have died because of a pathetically bad film about the middle easten version of LRon Hubbard. If an image of someone getting their head hacked off with a rusty scimitar was shown on the internets would the muilms be as upset?
NSW Police statement on today's events. Peaceful protest ended and most of those people left. 8 then arrested, pepper spray used because police were assaulted with glass bottles by the crowd that moved on to Hyde Park
ex·trem·ist A person who holds extreme or fanatical political or religious views, esp. one who resorts to or advocates extreme action. fa·nat·i·cal Filled with excessive and single-minded zeal. Obsessively concerned with something. ex·ces·sive More than is necessary, normal, or desirable; immoderate. de·sir·a·ble Wanted or wished for as being an attractive, useful, or necessary course of action.
now use desirable within the context of society, news reports that use the word extreme while covering behaviour and the opinions of people who say extremism. and now i feel stupid for explaining that some words dont have precise definitions. the word soft can have different levels of softness btw
That's exactly my point Beezwax, it's all relative to society. e.g. Freeing homosexuals in Iran is extremist there, so I think that it's not a very good position to argue from when condemning people.
It's not that these people are extremists which bothers me, it's that they are calling for beheading, upset over a b-grade movie insult, blaming everybody else, expecting special treatment regarding freedom of speech, and following a creed which commands bullshit like this. If you call somebody an extremist, they'll probably take it as a compliment, thinking "Good, I'm a true X, better than the sheep" and won't know what your problem with them actually is.
That kid should just be taken from the clearly unfit parents.
Yep, I agree. Though I think that about most any superstitious parents.
nah nerfy. its not your point. the word is useful in english because people already know that its used in context. no one thinks these guys belong to the 'extreme muslim party'. enough arguing for the sake of it. on to better things
It's a social normalcy / peer pressure approach, and I doubt that many like this would take it as an insult. Better to state the actual criticisms, imo. It might be worthwhile to look into the 'argument to moderation' fallacy.
Even by Nerfy's own words, they are still extreme. This situation is circumstantial as he claims and I lay on the side of the fence that says their actions are extremist actions.
I have never seen any protest in Australia with people holding signs calling for the beheading of anybody.
Banner in the Redfern riots pictured a police officer on fire, having third degree burns from ankle to knee I think I would prefer beheading! My point was, there are many Muslims in that part of Australia, most didn't join the protest, those that did had their protest and left, and then it went to shit, and from the pics in this thread those that started the violence are the usual fuckheads that just need a reason, any reason to start that shit.
Muslims are just misunderstood - it is a religion of peace.
Yeah, their way of achieving peace is just a little different - kinda like the Aeon - just wipe out anyone who doesn't see it your way, that way you'll have peace :D
Yeah, their way of achieving peace is just a little different - kinda like the Aeon - just wipe out anyone who doesn't see it your way, that way you'll have peace :D
That plan also always falls down due to subdivisions which inevitably occur when there are no sources involved in claims, see: Sunni/Shiites, Catholics/Protestants, etc.
Yes they are. Also it's not limited to mulims, see the recent "twitter troll" tears, although at least they have the common decency to just take a handful of pills and not start riots.
The sillyness about all this is that the 'movie' was just some random guys dubbing over some actors on a very poor fake desert background.
I'm not even sure what they are rioting over? Are they pissed off because the movie was so bad? Are they so unhappy that in reality almost no human on the planet would have watched it, let alone even know about it?
I demand the right to follow my religion. I also demand the right that others do what I say!
They need to chill the fuck out. Islam really is the worst of the big three. It was a shithouse movie, that I couldn't even make it half way through. Yet they're freaking the fuck out and calling for people to be killed and killing people! It's fucking stupid.
I remember when I was at the Atheist convention earlier this year a group of angry muslims showed up calling for the death of Ayaan Hirsi Ali (she's an ex-muslim who now speaks out against Islam and female genital mutilation). How exactly is it a religion of peace again?
The people protesting, causing the violence and chanting about loving Osama are clearly broken...I think we should avoid sweeping generalisations though.
I've just read and watched a lot of footage and I just don't understand it. Violent protests accomplish nothing, I can't imagine there are many people today looking at the news footage saying "You're right and we're behind you". They should just all be arrested.
I'm inclined to agree with Nerfy's call on the term 'extremist'. It's too ambiguous. (but here and now isn't the place to argue the point)
Religion is doing what it can to extinguish itself, it's just a shame that it's still so popular. I'd like to think that there are still good things that can come from religion (Contributing to a community/family values type stuff). And then I remember, that you don't need to be a part of a religion to 'not be a cunt' to your fellow man. (tho as I think about it now, 'being a cunt' and 'being a peacable family/community oriented person' will both continue to exist regardless of what religion does, people will still be shoehorned into the most convenient 'category' that fits the agenda of the day.)
I really feel sorry for the country full of Libyian citizens who are going to have to deal with US Drones circling overhead in the coming months.
I really doubt this whole thing is (at its core) about that stupid fucking video; I'm thinking it was about some violent militant/political fuckwits cashing in on a large crowd gathering around the US Consulate (or 'mission' or whatever they want to call it).
Behead those whose science is flawed. The great Dawkins said we cannot tolerate those who don't use reason! How reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
Just saying there are a lot more sensible Muslims than there are 'crazies'.
There were more sensible germans than there were nazis, doesn't make the actions of the more radical groups excusable.
We're talking about a collective action here, and just because 'all the muslims' didn't march onto city square doesn't mean you can take the remainder's complacency as disagreement; In fact the opposite is much more likely.
Tatoo parlors must be loving this.. I can see all the bogans lining up for southern cross and eureaka flag tatoos ready to join the fray
I mentioned one night at work that the southern cross tattoo was the most bogan of them all. My boss replied she has a southern cross tattoo. Not awkward at all.
The first of the six arrested faced court today and was denied bail because one of the charges were for breaching bail conditions. Police were called to the court because some of his supporters threatened news camera men. Unfortuantely his next appearance is only 2 days away.
NSW Police have formed Strike Force McAlister to review all the footage from the day and track down those responsible for the violence and property damage.
“We have plenty of material to examine and I can guarantee those extremists who caused these problems, they will be joining those already charged. If you were sensible, you would come forward now and speak with police... I also have a warning for those thinking of repeating these events that we are ready and you will be dealt with. ...
There is no question these problems were caused by a relative few who have betrayed those who did seek to express their views in a peaceful and considered way... I am heartened by the views expressed today by a range of leaders in the Islamic community,"
(i) the person intentionally associates with another person who is a member of, or a person who promotes or directs the activities of, an organisation; and
(ii) the person knows that the organisation is a terrorist organisation; and
(iii) the association provides support to the organisation; and
(iv) the person intends that the support assist the organisation to expand or to continue to exist; and
(v) the person knows that the other person is a member of, or a person who promotes or directs the activities of, the organisation; and
(b) the organisation is a terrorist organisation because of paragraph (b), (c), (d) or (e) of the definition of terrorist organisation in this Division (whether or not the organisation is a terrorist organisation because of paragraph (a) of that definition also).
Penalty: Imprisonment for 3 years.
i dont understand why that guy isnt in jail right now
The right to freedom of expression is recognized as a human right under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and recognized in international human rights law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Article 19 of the ICCPR states that "[e]veryone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference" and "everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice". Would you prefer a dictatorship that prevents even your views, if they don't comply with government requirements, be vilified and banned?
You don't have to like it but isn't this one of the freedoms our diggers fight for? freedom of speech.
""I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
what i dont understand is these people have left their war torn country, that has been ripped apart and is full of religious violence to come here and do the same thing.
Pretty much round the cunts up and ship them home i say.
Cronulla riots now this, stupid lebs think they run this country
fpot, every time you post lately all i can think of is:
you used to be a pretty reasonable, normal guy even if I disagreed with a lot of your views. now you're like some some sort of caricature of a person. what happened? did you turn into such a condescending, pseudo-intellectual shitbag because you've gone back to uni or something?
i'm all for freedom of expression.. but this isnt that..
this asshat is out on the street saying he supports a terrorist
not sure if you realise there is a country called afganstan who also supported this group and we went to war against them..because they supported this group.. Australian servicemen have been killed by the people who support this group.. we have killed and continue to kill people who support this group..
kick the cunt back to afghanistan if he wants to support al qaeda
The ADF has suffered 38 operational deaths in Afghanistan. Further details about each is available on the battle casualties pages. Soldiers killed in action are:
Sergeant Andrew Russell, SASR, died of wounds sustained when his patrol vehicle struck an anti-tank mine on 16 February 2002.
Trooper David Pearce, 2/14 LHR QMI, was killed when his ASLAV was struck by an Improvised Explosive Device on 8 October 2007.
Sergeant Matthew Locke, SASR, was killed by Taliban insurgent small-arms fire on 25 October 2007.
Private Luke Worsley, 4RAR (Cdo), was killed by Taliban insurgent small-arms fire on 23 November 2007.
Lance Corporal Jason Marks, 4RAR (Cdo), was killed by Taliban insurgent small-arms fire on 28 April 2008.
Signaller Sean McCarthy, SASR, was killed when the vehicle he was travelling in was struck by an Improvised Explosive Device on 8 July 2008.
Lieutenant Michael Fussell, 4RAR(Cdo), was killed by an Improvised Explosive Device during a dismounted patrol on 27 November 2008.
Private Gregory Sher, 1st Commando Regiment, was killed in a rocket attack on 4 January 2009.
Corporal Mathew Hopkins, 7th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment, was killed during an engagement with the Taliban on 16 March 2009.
Sergeant Brett Till, Incident Response Regiment, was killed by an Improvised Explosive Device during a route clearance task on the 19 March 2009.
Private Benjamin Ranaudo, 1st Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device on 18 July 2009.
Sapper Jacob Moerland, 2nd Combat Engineer Regiment was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device strike on 7 June 2010.
Sapper Darren Smith, 2nd Combat Engineer Regiment died of wounds sustained during an Improvised Explosive Device strike on 7 June 2010.
Private Timothy Aplin, 2nd Commando Regiment died as a result of a helicopter crash on 21 June 2010.
Private Scott Palmer, 2nd Commando Regiment died as a result of a helicopter crash on 21 June 2010.
Private Benjamin Chuck, 2nd Commando Regiment died of wounds sustained in a helicopter crash on 21 June 2010.
Private Nathan Bewes, 6th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device on 9 July 2010.
Trooper Jason Brown, SASR, died as a result of gunshot wounds sustained in an engagement with insurgents on 13 August 2010.
Private Tomas Dale, 6th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device strike on 20 August 2010.
Private Grant Kirby, 6th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device strike on 20 August 2010.
Lance Corporal Jared MacKinney, 6th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment, was killed during an engagement with insurgents on 24 August 2010.
Corporal Richard Atkinson, 1st Combat Engineer Regiment, was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device strike on 2 February 2011.
Sapper Jamie Larcombe, 1st Combat Engineer Regiment, was killed during an engagement with insurgents on 19 February 2011.
Sergeant Brett Wood, MG, DSM, 2nd Commando Regiment, was killed by an Improvised Explosive Device during a dismounted patrol on 23 May 2011.
Lance Corporal Andrew Jones, 9th Force Support Battalion, died of wounds as a result of a small-arms fire incident on 30 May 2011.
Lieutenant Marcus Case, 6th Aviation Regiment, died of wounds sustained in a helicopter crash on 30 May 2011.
Sapper Rowan Robinson, Incident Response Regiment, died as a result of gunshot wounds sustained in an engagement with insurgents on 06 June 2011.
Sergeant Todd Langley, 2nd Commando Regiment, was killed during an engagement with insurgents on 4 July 2011
Private Matthew Lambert, 2nd Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment, died of wounds as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device strike on 22 August 2011.
Captain Bryce Duffy, 4th Regiment, Royal Australian Artillery, was killed as a result of a small-arms incident on 29 October 2011.
Corporal Ashley Birt, 6th Engineer Support Regiment, was killed as a result of a small-arms incident on 29 October 2011.
Lance Corporal Luke Gavin, 2nd Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment died of wounds as a result of a small-arms incident on 29 October 2011.
Sergeant Blaine Flower Diddams from the Special Air Service Regiment was killed during a small arms engagement with insurgents on 02 July 2012.
Sapper James Martin, 2nd Combat Engineer Regiment was killed as a result of a small-arms incident on 29 August 2012.
Lance Corporal Stejpan Milosevic, 2nd/14th Light Horse Regiment (QMI), was killed as a result of a small-arms incident on 29 August 2012.
Private Robert Poate, 6th Battalion, the Royal Australian Regiment was killed as a result of a small-arms incident on 29 August 2012.
Private Nathanael Galagher, 2nd Commando Regiment was killed in a helicopter crash on 30 August 2012.
Lance Corporal Mervyn McDonald, 2nd Commando Regiment was killed in a helicopter crash on 30 August 2012.
The 25 Muslim leaders who met last night also decided to break ranks with their international counterparts by saying that protests over the YouTube film insulting the prophet Muhammad were unacceptable and unIslamic. They decided they would not endorse any protest, even peaceful demonstrations, following Saturdays violent scenes, which they said were worse than the Cronulla riots.
The reporter didn't quote anyone saying the above, just reported that it was 'decided', and you have to work through a lot of victimhood statements and complaining to get to that bit, but it is there.
natslovR, I sure would like to see those guys hitting the streets with signs etc protesting against the protestors a la the guys in Libya - instead of just releasing a press release after the fact.
Can we keep the smart well rounded Muslim men and women and deport the idiotic, young, overly sensitive, zealot cockheads?
Why stop there? Let's deport cockheads of EVERY race, creed, colour and religion. Make it a country that doesn't need "warning: sharp" labels on knives or "warning: HOT!" labels on frypans. Let's make it a country of mature adults who are able to choose which video games they play, or movies they watch, without some nanny-esque overwatch "protecting us".
Why stop there? Let's deport cockheads of EVERY race, creed, colour and religion. Make it a country that doesn't need "warning: sharp" labels on knives or "warning: HOT!" labels on frypans. Let's make it a country of mature adults who are able to choose which video games they play, or movies they watch, without some nanny-esque overwatch "protecting us".
Someone give me a call in about 30 years and let me know how it all turned out please. Or am I being overly optimistic in thinking 30 years might be enough time. I am so over all this bullshit I just wish it would go away, so someone please pick a winner so we can move on.
Someone give me a call in about 30 years and let me know how it all turned out please. Or am I being overly optimistic in thinking 30 years might be enough time. I am so over all this bullshit I just wish it would go away, so someone please pick a winner so we can move on.
The culture stagnated over 800 years ago but is still here, so yea probably too optimistic.
These are causing some issues for French politicians who previously stood by and said that the riots had nothing to do with them since the issue was caused by Americans not Frenchmen. Well now they have to stand up and defend free speech, but at the moment they just seem to be condemning the publisher.
Looks like theres going to be drama this weekend for Sydney and Melbourne.
Police are deeply concerned that racial violence like that of the 2005 Cronulla riots could erupt this weekend, in response to last Saturday's Muslim demonstration in Sydney.
7.30 has revealed that white-pride groups are growing online, with a series of online and text messages showing planned retaliation.
Provocative messages have begun to appear on Facebook pages, calling on white "home-grown" Australians to respond violently to protests.
The only thing more embarrassing than this shit happening in Australia at all, would be if so called "real Australians" decided to turn it into a racial war. Someone please tell those people to just fuck off, let the authorities handle it, and to just remember how irritating religion is when they're voting next time.
i saw one guy in particular last weekend who didn't mind trying to beat a few police who was as pasty as you get and a ranga.
its not racism to say islam is shit. its as shit as the rest of them. religion is for weak minded people who cant make decisions for themselves and laugh in the face of reality.
When it's organised by 'pro white' groups though, they're clearly focusing on the ethnicity components.
Ftr I hate words like Islamaphobia applied to any criticism (a phobia must be irrational), and calling criticisms of ideologies 'racism' (as if it's a criticism of a 'trait'). Just that these guys seem to be motivated by stupid tribalism.
I think the biggest shame isn't the "islamaphobia" but the acts of a few has screwed the many. If a union rally in Sydney turned a riot and they then planned for another in Melbourne, I'm sure there would be the exact same reaction.
what are they protesting again? a video from overseas? what should a 'successful protest' achieve exactly? what is the outcome they are realistically hoping for? i dont get it.
I would say that there is strength in hope, belief is just one way to get it, which leads to many adverse effects elsewhere (not the least of which is, that, no human wants to be scammed, I am confident in presuming).
As a follow on from trog's link, 30,000 people staged an anti Islamist protest in Libya today, stormed the the Islamists head quarters, kicked them out, ransacked it and set it on fire
Fear not everyone. The conflict between The protestors and liberal democracies with the standoff over blasphemy is nearly solved. Our Foreign Minister was on ABC Insiders this morning and said he has been traveling around the world explaining to foreign leaders that instead of people protesting in the streets they should take to the Internet and research institutes and explain their objection to it.
A Pakistani government minister has offered a $100,000 reward for the death of the maker of the anti-Islam film produced in the US that sparked violent protests across the Muslim world.
Railways minister Ghulam Ahmed Bilour invited members of the Talban and Al Qaeda to take part in the "noble deed", and said given the chance he would kill the film-maker with his own hands.
ISLAMABAD — The Pakistan government on Wednesday declared Friday a national holiday in honour of the Muslim prophet Mohammed and called for peaceful protests against a US-made film deemed insulting to Islam.
In my opinion the sooner we move to a moral scientific society the better we all will be, keep your religious ideals to your followers. If someone is interested they will ASK YOU about them.
The Higgs Boson particle is a ideal/concept of explanation of the physical world through quantum theory that has long undergone attempts to find it, and prove its existence through scientific methods. Religious ideals make NO REAL attempt to prove anything, ignorance is bliss.
There is no reason to be violent, just don't FORCE your ideals on others. If they ask, simply explain FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW. Never say THIS IS THE WAY IT IS AND YOU MUST BURN IN HELL FOR NOT AGREEING/BELIEVING etc..etc..etc..
Muslim leaders are now going to the UN to try to push for blasphemy becoming an international crime.
sounds scary, but do they even have the power to do this? UN assembly resolutions are non-binding I thought, and in any case the only countries that will enforce it will be pakistan and similar shitholes that currently have lynch mobs enforcing these laws
They got another man for inciting people to violence (over SMS) today. He sent the text on Wednesday, encouraging people to go in to the city on the weekend
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