TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
8034 posts
Kogan is going to apparently add a tax to all sales made from people still using IE7 - if it's true, it's quite an ingenious way to get people to upgrade.
Online retail maverick Kogan has rolled out another headline grabber, this time enforcing a 6.8% tax on visitors to his site still using Internet Explorer 7 in an effort to ‘make the internet a better place.’
http://www.powerretail.com.au/news/kogan-to-tax-ie7-users/ |
deadlyf
Queensland
2655 posts
That's not a tax, it's a surcharge.
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Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
19317 posts
arkter
Gold Coast, Queensland
824 posts
why not internet explorer in general :P
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Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12593 posts
why not internet explorer in general :P
Because later versions of IE are reasonably standards compliant.
That's not a tax, it's a surcharge. Yeh.
And its just a stunt anyway.
Kogan has CHOSEN to spend a shitload of money supporting IE7, its not something they had to do. Thousands of web companies make a choice not to supoprt legacy browsers and just stick a compatibility warning on entry to the site. MS themselves are running a campaign to get rid of IE6.
Pissing off people who are trying to give you money seems a bit stupid to me?
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Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
6917 posts
Pissing off people who are trying to give you money seems a bit stupid to me?
Best way to educate people that older browsers are less safe, and way behind in terms of current technology.
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Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12595 posts
Best way to educate people that older browsers are less safe, and way behind in terms of current technology.
Yeh, because people go to Kogan to learn about web standards, not to buy TVs.
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Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
19318 posts
If they're not educated, then they aren't going to be going anywhere to learn about web standards because they probably have no idea what web standards are. This way at least, clueless internet shoppers who may have had no idea they were even using an out of date browser can be educated/smacked on the knuckles.
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FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
8943 posts
That's not a tax, it's a surcharge
Its called Pricing Carbon.
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Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12596 posts
This way at least, clueless internet shoppers who may have had no idea they were even using an out of date browser can be educated/smacked on the knuckles.
Maybe I'm old school, but I don't tend to smack my clients on the knuckles?
Dropping official support for IE7 and adding the same warning page (without the surcharge) would achieve the same end.
But it wouldn't be newsworthy, because developers do this day in, day out. Hence, its just a stunt, and you're a pack of muppets lining up clapping a stupid PR stunt.
OK that was a bit angsty, but I was up to 3am with screaming children.
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Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
7044 posts
I think this is a fantastic idea. People will change their habits when it hurts their wallet.
If someone goes to the site and it doesn't work with IE7, they just won't buy anything. But if they get to the checkout, see that, and realise "Wait, I can SAVE $40 if I change this", they'll do it.
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Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
4944 posts
OK that was a bit angsty, but I was up to 3am with screaming children.
Have you tried giving them an incentive of 6.8% more attention during the day so they don't wake at an hour of the night when they're more difficult to support? ;)
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Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
13280 posts
I'm with Hoggy.
I don't like Kogan and I try to avoid their store although I did crumble and buy my latest mobs from there since it was a lot cheaper than anywhere else.
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Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
19320 posts
Maybe they could have had one price for ie7 users, and a discount for people using newer browsers, ie, make it a positive thing to use a newer browser instead of a negative thing to use ie7. Would that offend your delicate sensibilities less?
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Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
4945 posts
I agree with Hoggy that it's a stunt, but if it gets people to upgrade their crappy old browsers and they're willing to cop any complaints from cranky customers then more power to them.
I didn't think IE7 was that bad wrt standards compliance is it? Are IE6 customers slugged as well?
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Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
13281 posts
Maybe they could have had one price for ie7 users, and a discount for people using newer browsers, ie, make it a positive thing to use a newer browser instead of a negative thing to use ie7. Would that offend your delicate sensibilities less?
Nah it would give me the fucking shits because working out prices from multiple online stores is pain in the arse enough without having to fuck around with every store's ideals and agenda fees.
IMO it should be shot down for the stupid idea that it is.
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Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12597 posts
The thing is, the people who use IE7 out of ignorance won't understand the message, they'll just see an extra charge and have a 'rapped knuckles' experience at checkout for using an old browser. Believe it or not a lot of people don't know what a 'browser' is, they just click on the Internet button, and yelling at them doesn't help.
The other people who will be charged are SOE lockins with no choice. Nice little punch in the undies for them.
The opportunity for this to invoke real change is minimal; the people its actually aimed at don't use IE7 (or IE at all!). Ergo, its a marketing stunt - probably cooked up by Ruslan Kogan to attract the sort of e-hero cheering that's going on in here. Maybe they could have had one price for ie7 users, and a discount for people using newer browsers, ie, make it a positive thing to use a newer browser instead of a negative thing to use ie7. Would that offend your delicate sensibilities less? This is a silly remark unworthy of you Khel. For shame.
Once again it begs the question that nobody can answer: if the motivation is the cost of maintaining an IE7-compatible site, then stop supporting it and stick a page up with an explanation like everyone else does. Why the need for the big silly 'tax' campaign? Oh yeh, cheesy PR stunt. |
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4942 posts
I agree with hogfather, its just like i had heaps ppl complaing because there Diablo III wouldnt run on there computer. I told them to do windows updates which they said they turned off because it was bugged them :/ then once it was up to date they still couldnt run the game. I asked them what service pack they were running. The guy was running Windows XP service pack 1! Lol!!!
some ppl really just dont know
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Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
13283 posts
TiT, more like some people are just using outdated pirated copies of Windows XP and don't want Genuine Advantage dramas ;)
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Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
4946 posts
Of course it's a cheesy PR stunt, but it's one that nicely aligned with educating people to upgrade their browsers so that Kogan (and everyone else) can eventually drop support and reduce web site development costs. There's next to no difference between this and the 3% charge on using Amex and Diners cards that a lot of businesses apply - instead of saying "no we don't accept that card" they'll take it but the extra costs are passed along. Nobody rages about that, because there's a relatively easy way of avoiding the charge if it's worth it to you.
Believe it or not a lot of people don't know what a 'browser' is, they just click on the Internet button, and yelling at them doesn't help. Ignorance and convenience can be expensive.
The other people who will be charged are SOE lockins with no choice. Nice little punch in the undies for them.
It might be worth the 6.8% saving to those people to wait until they get home from work to shop for a plasma TV. |
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12599 posts
Of course it's a cheesy PR stunt, but it's one that nicely aligned with educating people to upgrade their browsers so that Kogan (and everyone else) can eventually drop support and reduce web site development costs. There's next to no difference between this and the 3% charge on using Amex and Diners cards that a lot of businesses apply - instead of saying "no we don't accept that card" they'll take it but the extra costs are passed along. Nobody rages about that, because there's a relatively easy way of avoiding the charge if it's worth it to you.
Liar.
Lots of people rage about it, and lots of time is spent on forums like this working out if its a rip-off. See: plane tickets.
Shitty analogy anyway, there's no way way for grandma to avoid the kogan charge other than annoy me. You don't need to doanload an update to get a MasterCard.
It might be worth the 6.8% saving to those people to wait until they get home from work to shop for a plasma TV. So take your work home with you is the solution?
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FraktuRe
Gold Coast, Queensland
4273 posts
IF you're buying gear for work, then why would you care about the price?
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Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12601 posts
IF you're buying gear for work, then why would you care about the price?
...
I just, th-
...
Fuck it.
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Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
4947 posts
Hoggy, you don't like their unorthodox business decision because
(a) customers are ignorant, lazy and helpless
(b) Kogan's a cheeseball
(c) there's no perceived impact in browser statistics; and
(d) you don't like giving grandma free technical support?
I would have to disagree and give Kogan and the majority of their customers a bit of credit, those are pretty flimsy arguments.
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thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9762 posts
you're locked in to SOE but you're buying equipment online?
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Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12602 posts
Hoggy, you don't like their unorthodox business decision because
(a) customers are ignorant, lazy and helpless
(b) Kogan's a cheeseball
(c) there's no perceived impact in browser statistics; and
(d) you don't like giving grandma free technical support?
I would have to disagree and give Kogan and the majority of their customers a bit of credit, those are pretty flimsy arguments.
They're your words, not mine. Keep them to yourself, sir.
My main point that you continue to ignore with these diversions is that its an unnecessary PR stunt. Once again (as maybe someone will challenge it if I post it over and over and over again) what benefit is there to surcharging customers (or 'punishing' them as reported today) vs. dropping support for legacy browsers and sticking a notice up, aside from cheesy PR.
Go on, ignore it again. I dare you.
you're locked in to SOE but you're buying equipment online?
Why is this unreasonable? Having a standard computer environment doesn't mean you don't independently buy a plasma for the show room?!
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Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
13285 posts
Gah this shit story is #1 on Hacker News YC.
Ignore, people. Be smart.
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Dazhel
Gold Coast, Queensland
4949 posts
Twice above I agreed with you that it's a PR stunt. Doesn't automatically mean it's a bad idea though.
The benefit to Kogan is that in addition to the PR their web developers can start to ignore IE7 after a while because nobody wants to buy through their website with IE7. The benefit to customers is that they're on a better browser that they might not have realised there are issues with.
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Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
19325 posts
This is a silly remark unworthy of you Khel. For shame.
Probably, but I just don't get why the outrage against this. Seems like a trivial thing to take such a stance against. Sure its a PR stunt, but who cares if it is. I mean the fact its getting so much attention is probably doing more to educate people that IE7 is an old browser they shouldn't be using than the actual surchage would be anyway.
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Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
20054 posts
I agree with hogfather, its just like i had heaps ppl complaing because there Diablo III wouldnt run on there computer. I told them to do windows updates which they said they turned off because it was bugged them :/ then once it was up to date they still couldnt run the game. I asked them what service pack they were running. The guy was running Windows XP service pack 1! Lol!!!
some ppl really just dont know
It's worse when little johnny pirates windows for his granpa who knows nothing, turns off auto updates because MS "will find him and rape him" so grandpa now has an out dated and insecure version of windows and doesn't even know about it.
The other people who will be charged are SOE lockins with no choice. Nice little punch in the undies for them. I view the kind of person who is forced to use IE7 because they're at work, should be working and not browsing around the internet buying shit. If you're the IT guy in charge of all this stuff, as if you wouldn't have your own laptop hooked up to the phat work connection which, one would hope, would be running a decent browser. Hell, who doesn't have an internet capable smart phone these days?
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Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
13291 posts
Hell, who doesn't have an internet capable smart phone these days?
You aware that the Gov't is probably tracking your every move?
:P
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Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
20055 posts
it's ok, I wrote a VB gui to prevent my phone from broadcasting an IP address
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Hemerage
Brisbane, Queensland
15515 posts
OK that was a bit angsty, but I was up to 3am with screaming children.
Even your kids aren't compliant!
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This thread is full of massive whinge. You're complaining that it's a cheesy PR stunt? Isn't that Kogan's M.O. right there?
As cheesy PR stunts go, it's one of the most satisfying I've seen.
And personally I don't see how it's actually going to drive business towards Kogan, so there's no real reason to try to ignore it as Pinky says. At the worst it encourages people who don't know a lot about their browser to ask someone who does. If this lame stunt makes grandma bother Hoggy into upgrading her browser then fucking brilliant.
On the other hand browser compatibility warnings do almost nothing to encourage this, if the user isn't savvy enough to upgrade their browser then they're most likely not going to be savvy enough to even understand a compatibility warning and will just ignore it.
I can't see a single situation where upgrading the browser or using a different PC to complete the purchase would not be an option.
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fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
20860 posts
I reckon if anyone is detected ordering a product on Kogan with IE7 they should send people to their houses and literally kill them.
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Murderer
Tasmania
1917 posts
Fuck me.
What would be a better idea is just not developing it for IE7, not wasting your companies money and putting a "this website is not supported because your browser is prehistoric" click here to upgrade etc.
Jesus.
They may develop it for ie7, then have 3 purchases..... so.
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Khel
Brisbane, Queensland
19327 posts
As opposed to metaphorically killing them?
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fpot
Gold Coast, Queensland
20861 posts
There has been cases of people being metaphorically killed. Obes for example.
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