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Telstra NBN prices
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
7767 posts
Telstra have announced their NBN Pricing today. Not much to write home about but the BigPond velocity plans look to be a decent deal with a 200Gb plan up to 25Mbps costing $69.95/month.

Their 100Mbps plans are only available bundled with a T-Box or Foxtel and start at $100 and $200 respectively.
04:43pm 27/02/12 Permalink
system
Internet
--
04:43pm 27/02/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
2564 posts
Wonder if already having a t-box counts.
04:46pm 27/02/12 Permalink
ravn0s
Brisbane, Queensland
14577 posts
already pay $69.95 for 200gb at 25Mbps. might pay the extra $10 for 100Mbps though.
04:52pm 27/02/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12761 posts
They'll have to do a bit better than that if they want to stay competitive on the NBN. Be interesting to see how they change as more customers become available.

At the moment, their 100mbit HFC cable bundle deal with 200GB @ $88 is quite a bit better value (although it only has 2mbit upload, where NBN would have 40mbit up).
04:55pm 27/02/12 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
577 posts
Telstra have announced their NBN Pricing today. Not much to write home about but the BigPond velocity plans look to be a decent deal with a 200Gb plan up to 25Mbps costing $69.95/month.

Their 100Mbps plans are only available bundled with a T-Box or Foxtel and start at $100 and $200 respectively.

You nearly get 25Mbps if you're close to an exchange (like I am, around 300m away). They'll have to do a lot better than that if they want people to sign up in my opinion.

But hey, since when is value for money synonymous with government infrastructure programs?
04:57pm 27/02/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12762 posts
But hey, since when is value for money synonymous with government infrastructure programs?
There's much better value with other NBN ISPS. Go look at Internode and Exetel's plans.
04:58pm 27/02/12 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
7769 posts
I think it's not bad in comparison but the overall NBN pricing is just pretty ordinary. I'm hoping that when it's rolled out to more households that the price will start to fall a little but that must in some fantasy land I've built up for myself where the price of a government initiated project goes down as the years roll on.
05:00pm 27/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12652 posts
But hey, since when is value for money synonymous with government infrastructure programs?


this has nothing to do with the government, Telstra pay $20/mbps for AVC like everyone else
Telstra are always more expensive, they usually cite their "excellent performance" for the differences, but you're just paying for the name
05:02pm 27/02/12 Permalink
mission
Brisbane, Queensland
8388 posts
but you're just paying for the name


Sooooo, shouldn't Telstra be cheaper?
05:09pm 27/02/12 Permalink
Trauma
Melbourne, Victoria
2328 posts
Already on better.
05:17pm 27/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12653 posts
Unfortunately what has happened with Telstra is mum & dad operations have stuck with them since forever because they've always had that Telecom/Telstra copper line, they've always had a bill from them.. they figure when they get the net they just ring up and ask for that to be added to their bill, they don't even bother shopping around

Their reluctance to go elsewhere is what gives Telstra the right to charge more, because they can get away with it
05:18pm 27/02/12 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
2431 posts
You nearly get 25Mbps if you're close to an exchange (like I am, around 300m away). They'll have to do a lot better than that if they want people to sign up in my opinion.

But hey, since when is value for money synonymous with government infrastructure programs?
It's the exact same price as their ADSL2 plans.

Not sure why people keep getting excited about plan pricing, it's not like anyone actually lives in any of the made up places they are claiming to have installed the NBN in anyway. Like we are meant to believe "Townsville" is a real place.
05:23pm 27/02/12 Permalink
hardware
Brisbane, Queensland
10091 posts
haha mish
05:39pm 27/02/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
5547 posts
On TPG unlimited. Rather unlimited quota then getting small quota on higher speeds. More likely to go over the cap then.
06:03pm 27/02/12 Permalink
Jimbo
Brisbane, Queensland
827 posts
I'm happy with 100/5 for $300 thanks
06:04pm 27/02/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
8392 posts
Im going to move to Nunnawaraamooloopagapunyap so I can get 25mbs Internet @ $70 for my Cattle Station.
Thank you $42 000 000 NBN.
06:08pm 27/02/12 Permalink
Whoop
Brisbane, Queensland
19407 posts
Unfortunately what has happened with Telstra is mum & dad operations have stuck with them since forever because they've always had that Telecom/Telstra copper line, they've always had a bill from them.. they figure when they get the net they just ring up and ask for that to be added to their bill, they don't even bother shopping around

Their reluctance to go elsewhere is what gives Telstra the right to charge more, because they can get away with it

or you're like me and it's either telstra cable, 56k dialup, or ADSL 1 @ 56k dialup speeds, or 3g wireless which drops out constantly (at least it does when I use my phone as a modem).

Telstra's cable is literally the best I can get here and I don't see a point in getting $400,000 in debt to buy a new house just "because the internet is s***".
06:09pm 27/02/12 Permalink
3dee
Brisbane, Queensland
6968 posts

up to 100 Mbps

Speeds slow to 256kbps once allowance reached

Ouch, that's gotta hurt.
06:25pm 27/02/12 Permalink
Seven
Wollongong, New South Wales
1456 posts
Yeah the capped speed doesn't make sense. They can obviously afford the bandwidth. It should be 512 to 1500 kbps shaped. Even though you can download a fair bit with that speed...
06:55pm 27/02/12 Permalink
Captain Lateral
Brisbane, Queensland
4431 posts
Like we are meant to believe "Townsville" is a real place.


my new 100Mbit connection. http://speedtest.ookla.com/result/1563725151.png
07:16pm 27/02/12 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
7771 posts

Im going to move to Nunnawaraamooloopagapunyap so I can get 25mbs Internet @ $70 for my Cattle Station.
Thank you $42 000 000 NBN.


Missing some zero's
07:21pm 27/02/12 Permalink
mooby
Brisbane, Queensland
6112 posts
like
07:21pm 27/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6532 posts
I still can't figure out how you tell which ISPs have equiptment at your exchange. The land sales rep insisted there was somewhere I could go and search by lot number, but I can't seem to find it.

Optus plans seem to be the best value Ive come across. I'd like 1GB and 50Mbit.
07:32pm 27/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12654 posts
http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au/
I still can't figure out how you tell which ISPs have equiptment at your exchange. The land sales rep insisted there was somewhere I could go and search by lot number, but I can't seem to find it.

Optus plans seem to be the best value Ive come across. I'd like 1GB and 50Mbit.
07:54pm 27/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6533 posts
For NBN not DSL. There's no copper at all in my area.
08:24pm 27/02/12 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
578 posts
There's much better value with other NBN ISPS. Go look at Internode and Exetel's plans.


I'm talking about how all the ISP's will take up this plan and the government charges will never go down (will probably go up if anything), and with a lack of interest in the service, the cost will simply be tagged onto the public debt and we will pay for it through tax without reaping the benefits.

Not to mention the hilarity of the Telstra deal. $9 billion to force people off copper and onto fibre because the government said so.
08:35pm 27/02/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12765 posts
Err. You sure are dazed and confused. Telstra aren't a wholesaler on nbn. Why would they be passing any prices on to other providers? The other providers all buy their service from nbnco, the same as telstra have to, except their end customer prices are lower.

And there can't be a lack of interest in the service long term,because that 9 billion dollars you're whining about is the guarantee that the vast majority of the population will eventually be NBN customers. They either buy an NBN product, or they'll have nothing when the copper gets turned off.
09:04pm 27/02/12 Permalink
Pinky
Melbourne, Victoria
12719 posts
Maybe we'll even have the NBN within 10 years.

Is it just me, or is the roll-out lethargically slow?
10:38pm 27/02/12 Permalink
E.T.
Queensland
4227 posts
BROADBAND SPEEDS
• BigPond UItimate Velocity on the NBN offers download line speeds in
to the home up to 100Mbps and upload speeds from the home up to
40Mbps. These speeds exceed the capabilities of some content
servers and personal computers.


F*** yeah. I hear those of us on BP cable can get this real soon.
11:37pm 27/02/12 Permalink
FaceMan
Brisbane, Queensland
8398 posts
I wonder how much all that old Copper wire will be worth ?
11:39pm 27/02/12 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
579 posts
Err. You sure are dazed and confused. Telstra aren't a wholesaler on nbn. Why would they be passing any prices on to other providers?


Are you guys in a "make the same joke about dazedandconfused's username over and over" club or something?

And I never said they were a wholesaler, nor did I say they'd be the ones passing on price hikes to providers. Comprehension skills need a significant dustup.

They either buy an NBN product, or they'll have nothing when the copper gets turned off.


See here.

Not to mention the hilarity of the Telstra deal. $9 billion to force people off copper and onto fibre because the government said so.


Keyword "force". On top of the ridiculous cost, people also are told "too f*****g bad if they are happy with their current service, you're paying more now".

And who said there can't be a lack of interest long term? How long is it til the NBNCo monopoly (which is illegal in this country by the way) is tired and too expensive and competition can start providing their own fibre and satellites? From memory Telstra only have to wait a few years til they can market their satellite alternatives to the NBN. When that day comes, and there's still $40 billion of the initial cost left to be paid back, and everyone floods from the poorly maintained NBN to privately run networks, everyone will be then crying about how the tax increases are needed to pay for a stupid governmental market manipulation.
06:08am 28/02/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1321 posts
Well at the moment I'm paying 100$ a month for telstra cable (200gb), so woot, faster and cheaper$#@(*$@#
08:32am 28/02/12 Permalink
RockitMan
Brisbane, Queensland
6361 posts
Won't international downloads still be s*** on the NBN anyway?
08:37am 28/02/12 Permalink
Infidel
Netherlands
3873 posts
all so very expensive :/ shouldnt have to pay more than 50bucks a month for 100mbits ...
08:55am 28/02/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1322 posts
And who said there can't be a lack of interest long term? How long is it til the NBNCo monopoly (which is illegal in this country by the way) is tired and too expensive and competition can start providing their own fibre and satellites?


What the f*** are you on about, monopolies are legal in Australia, as they basically are in every other country, Australia Post is a monopoly:

http://www.dbcde.gov.au/post/australia_post

To assist it in carrying out its functions, Australia Post has a legislated monopoly (the reserved service) on the delivery of letters.


The only issue with "monopolies" is when private corporations are in a market position where they have a large percentage of the market, and conduct practices that make competition in that open market impossible (its usually not with a product, but products which tie together - ala IE+Windows). The main thing is "harmful to competition". In the same way nobody is going to fork out billions competing on letter sending, no corporation in their right mind is going to provide guaranteed broadband to the entire Australian population, because it doesn't make sense commercially. In the same way there are rural areas in Australia where Telstra (Telecom) lost money by putting phone lines in, the infrastructure costs more than they will ever get back. Thats why things like the NBN are important, its guaranteed. Sure, some people will get less than their individual tax paid for, thats called tax...

In my mind the ONLY people who should be whining about competition in this regard is other businesses whose purpose is to build and maintain telecommunications infrastructure which is competitive to the NBN - and who suck as replying to tenders. But more than happy to be corrected on this.
08:57am 28/02/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12767 posts
How long is it til the NBNCo monopoly (which is illegal in this country by the way) is tired and too expensive and competition can start providing their own fibre and satellites? From memory Telstra only have to wait a few years til they can market their satellite alternatives to the NBN.
You clearly don't have enough understanding of this policy to be so passionately opinionated on it. There are provisions in legislation that prevent providers from just coming along and cherry picking the lucrative areas and there are also conditions that require new fibre networks to be wholesaled under an open-access model.

There's also nothing illegal about a monopoly, it's just an undesirable market condition when it's a vertically integrated one (like Telstra) and the best side effect of the NBN is that that's being fixed.
10:27am 28/02/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12772 posts
Here's a good analysis of all the things wrong with telstra's NBN pricing in comparison to other providers http://delimiter.com.au/2012/02/27/telstras-nbn-plans-just-universally-awful/

Have to really wonder what their motivations are. Guess it's just to try and get a few of the early uneducated suckers locked in for 2 year contracts when they build a house at a new greenfield and the NBN is available and by default they think of Telstra as the big reliable, always there option still.
02:45pm 28/02/12 Permalink
Outlaw
Gold Coast, Queensland
1576 posts
I heard this today about nbn isp plans

One of the smaller players in Australia’s broadband marketplace has launched a range of innovative National Broadband Network pricing plans, including a top-end 100Mbps plan with 2TB of monthly quota and for $104.95, and a low-end plan which would cost customers as little as $29.95 per month.


http://delimiter.com.au/2012/02/22/isp-launches-2tb-100mbps-nbn-plan-for-105/
02:51pm 28/02/12 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
580 posts
There are provisions in legislation that prevent providers from just coming along and cherry picking the lucrative areas and there are also conditions that require new fibre networks to be wholesaled under an open-access model.

Telstra can start advertising its own private satellite service and other infrastructure services after 20 years if I am not mistaken. So, in fact, if the cost isn't recovered over that time PLUS interest PLUS inflation, the whole project has basically been a waste of money. This is ignoring the fact that government couldn't manage a project to build a water fountain efficiently, let alone a countrywide telecom network.

There's also nothing illegal about a monopoly, it's just an undesirable market condition when it's a vertically integrated one (like Telstra) and the best side effect of the NBN is that that's being fixed.


Monopoly Act 1923

In clear English, it states

"No person shall monopolise, attempt to
monopolise, or combine with any other person to
monopolise, the trade in any commodity or service,
with intent to control, to the detriment of the public,
the supply or price of the commodity or service. "

As usual, the government just creates legislation to bypass its own laws, because we all know the government is the only entity that has the knowhow to influence markets.

And I'd say anti-competitive rubbish like the agreements contained in here are detrimental to the public.
03:54pm 28/02/12 Permalink
Nathan
Brisbane, Queensland
3967 posts
In clear English, it states


What do you think NBN is actually a monopoly in?

NBN co is not monopolizing fibre; you can get Telstra or any number of providers to install a fibre line for you right now. We have one in the office, its awesome. But its also really expensive.
04:00pm 28/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12668 posts
So, in fact, if the cost isn't recovered over that time PLUS interest PLUS inflation, the whole project has basically been a waste of money.


except it isn't, because the network will facilitate science, research, business, communications etc
you can't look at this project as just another infrastructure program, it's so much more than that.

Telstra do not get any special treatment from NBNCo, every ISP has to pay the same flat rate costs across the board if they have 1 customer or 1 million
fwiw I work for an ISP that is connecting fibre customers and I sit in on the meetings with NBNCo every few weeks, so I have a fair idea of what I'm talking about

NBNCo needs special legal status to ensure that other companies can't just come in and cherry pick high density areas, otherwise the entire project would be a waste
every single connection in a big city is directly subsidising the more expensive rural connections
if they didn't do it this way people in the bush would be paying 10-100 times what us city slickers are paying, which would be "fair" in an economics sense but not very good for the country over all
04:28pm 28/02/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1323 posts
Telstra can start advertising its own private satellite service and other infrastructure services after 20 years if I am not mistaken.


Errrrrr, it already is... http://go.bigpond.com/satellite/


04:41pm 28/02/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
2579 posts
04:41pm 28/02/12 Permalink
thermite
Brisbane, Queensland
9077 posts
A few years ago scientists from all around the world were able to hook a bunch of massive telescopes in different spots on earth together using something like an internet, but much faster. The telescopes would coordinate together in real time, like your two eyes work together to see stuff properly. They were able to see more stuff than we've ever seen before. Vague story, but true and awesome.
04:44pm 28/02/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12773 posts
@Dazedandconfused: The legalese you posted explicitly states when it is to the detriment of the public.

Also, even if NBNCo wasn't able to recover the cost via service charges over that time, plus interest, plus inflation, blah blah, it's still not a waste of money, because there's a whole huge f*****g mass of physical infrastructure that can be (and is actually currently intended to be -- though i don't particularly support that if all is well) sold off and privatised. If Telstra's copper network is currently being redeemed for 11billion, how much do you reckon a fibre network running to the vast majority of the population will be worth in 20 years time?
04:46pm 28/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6543 posts
Mapped on Google maps now.


http://www.nbnco.com.au/rollout/rollout-map.html?icid=pub:network::men:roll-map

Woohoo. Craigieburn - Highlands Estage. Works Commenced: Stage 143.

The thing you have to understand about NBN though is that you can't just pick any ISP and go with them. ISPs have to buy a minimum quantity of bandwidth within an exchange, which means they'll only roll out certain exchanges at a time. It's much like in the early days of ADSL2 when ISPs had to have their own DSLAM equipment in Telstras exchanges in order to get 24Mbit (or 8Mbit+) speeds. NBN is the same. Don't expect to be able to get whatever value ISP, or even Telstra/Optus in your area from day one. It's more likely most people will get the choice of 3-6 ISPs at most, not the 20 listed on the NBNCo website.
And finding which ones service your exchange, there's currently no way to find out other than to ring each ISP.
05:02pm 28/02/12 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
581 posts
except it isn't, because the network will facilitate science, research, business, communications etc
you can't look at this project as just another infrastructure program, it's so much more than that.


99.9% of businesses will not benefit, and research organisations (I would know, I work for one) can pay for a dedicated fibre as they do everywhere else in the world for much cheaper and with much higher bandwidth than getting a half-baked connection with a billion other people on it downloading porn.

Telstra do not get any special treatment from NBNCo, every ISP has to pay the same flat rate costs across the board if they have 1 customer or 1 million
fwiw I work for an ISP that is connecting fibre customers and I sit in on the meetings with NBNCo every few weeks, so I have a fair idea of what I'm talking about


So the $9 billion to force people off copper is not "special treatment"? I wonder which government "IT professionals" came up with it being worth $9 billion in labour to rip out the copper, which they don't actually have to do really, and also get to keep once it is done?

NBNCo needs special legal status to ensure that other companies can't just come in and cherry pick high density areas, otherwise the entire project would be a waste
every single connection in a big city is directly subsidising the more expensive rural connections
if they didn't do it this way people in the bush would be paying 10-100 times what us city slickers are paying, which would be "fair" in an economics sense but not very good for the country over all


It isn't fair in any sense because you're forcing people to use a service they may not want with the added sting of tax dollars making up the shortfall.

Errrrrr, it already is... http://go.bigpond.com/satellite/


Well, if you read the agreement between NBNCo and Telstra it is clear they are not allowed to advertise it. I'd say they can only offer it to locations with no NBN infrastructure.

If Telstra's copper network is currently being redeemed for 11billion, how much do you reckon a fibre network running to the vast majority of the population will be worth in 20 years time?


If it is anything like the copper network, sweet f*** all. The fibre going into the ground now is top notch for now, but for long haul it will nearly certainly need to be replaced to remain competitive within 10 years. But we know the government record of maintaining infrastructure too.
05:03pm 28/02/12 Permalink
deadlyf
Queensland
2433 posts
Have to really wonder what their motivations are. Guess it's just to try and get a few of the early uneducated suckers locked in for 2 year contracts when they build a house at a new greenfield and the NBN is available and by default they think of Telstra as the big reliable, always there option still.
Like I said before, their NBN broadband prices are exactly the same as their ADLS2 prices.

They likely don't want to deal with 99.9% of their current customers ringing up and complaining about not being able to be on the better NBN deal and the .01% that can get on the NBN they will likely call them up and ask if they want to be migrated to the NBN network "at no extra cost!". There is no current incentive for them to offer competitive prices so why would they.
06:19pm 28/02/12 Permalink
m3nt4l
Brisbane, Queensland
2580 posts
Too late to pull out now Dazed, all the jobs, contracts, etc involved now, so just give it up.
06:20pm 28/02/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
5575 posts
Wonder if TPG will offer unlimited services. If they do, it will probably be around the $80 mark this time.
06:59pm 28/02/12 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
582 posts
Too late to pull out now Dazed, all the jobs, contracts, etc involved now, so just give it up.

I knew this long ago after my letters to the PM don't even get answered by secretary level public servants.
07:23pm 28/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12674 posts
99.9% of businesses will not benefit, and research organisations (I would know, I work for one) can pay for a dedicated fibre as they do everywhere else in the world for much cheaper and with much higher bandwidth than getting a half-baked connection with a billion other people on it downloading porn.


99.99% of business will benefit both directly and indirectly.
by having more customers who are able to shop on their sites and by offering services that they wouldn't otherwise be able to offer.

Not every business runs at a huge profit, plenty of SOHO business-types can only afford residential ADSL connections and they successfully run off these connections, but they're limited to just browsing/email/etc


So the $9 billion to force people off copper is not "special treatment"? I wonder which government "IT professionals" came up with it being worth $9 billion in labour to rip out the copper, which they don't actually have to do really, and also get to keep once it is done?


Wow, you're not getting this, Telstra is a private company and they sold an asset
Everyone else who has a copper network or some huge asset that NBNCo wants would also stand to benefit from that, but not many other companies do.
When i say 'special treatment', I'm talking they do not get AGVC pricing any cheaper than anyone else, so they do not get special treatment




It isn't fair in any sense because you're forcing people to use a service they may not want with the added sting of tax dollars making up the shortfall.

No one is being forced to use anything, if you don't want it just f*** off and get adsl or cable or wireless or 3g or satellite




If it is anything like the copper network, sweet f*** all.

The copper network that they just sold for NINE BILLION DOLLARS?!@?!@


The fibre going into the ground now is top notch for now, but for long haul it will nearly certainly need to be replaced to remain competitive within 10 years. But we know the government record of maintaining infrastructure too.

50 year life span, straight from the horses mouth.


if you're going to argue at least try and get some facts straight first
10:05pm 28/02/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
18459 posts
i figured out why are we rolling out 100mbit to everyone? cat videos. no business case, cat videos sells itself.
11:45pm 28/02/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1324 posts
Well, if you read the agreement between NBNCo and Telstra it is clear they are not allowed to advertise it. I'd say they can only offer it to locations with no NBN infrastructure.


If your talking about the agreement specifically then your talking about LTE (which is definitely not satellite...). Additionally, they are allowed to advertise it, they are not allowed to advertise it as "an alternative to the NBN". Which is fine, 100% fine, they are complimentary technologies in the same way 3G and ADSL2+/Cable are now.

LTE (as a technology) your looking at a technology speed limit of 300 Mbit/s (currently)
Fibre (as a technology) your looking at a technology speed limit of 14000000 Mbit/s (currently)

Dodgy references:
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2006/10/7878.ars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G#Data_rate_comparison

Not to mention that wireless performance is always dependant on the number of users on a single cell tower. Additionally the latency of the connection will never, ever, ever be competitive.

LTE will be long dead before Fibre outlives its usefulness. Its a lot easier to upgrade fibre ONT's than it is to upgrade+build more cell towers. Also this is not saying LTE is s*** (fantastic for on the move), but its not an alternative. Especially when you consider that wireless is traditionally more expensive with a worse data limit, and a lot more tightly controlled with carrier contracts.
02:50am 29/02/12 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
584 posts
99.99% of business will benefit both directly and indirectly.
by having more customers who are able to shop on their sites and by offering services that they wouldn't otherwise be able to offer.


Funny. I buy things from overseas all the time with an adsl connection just fine.

The copper network that they just sold for NINE BILLION DOLLARS?!@?!@


No, they didn't sell the network, they charged a fee for decommissioning it. And the taxpayer paid for it with no return. If it was still government owned, it wouldn't have been sold at all and we would have saved 9 billion dollars. Then again, if the NBN went ahead the government would have been in charge of decommissioning and it would have probably cost their inefficient teams 9 billion to do the job. So the solution is let people decide if they want ftth or even fttc.

50 year life span, straight from the horses mouth.


if you're going to argue at least try and get some facts straight first


Really? I know you'll be at least changing out transmitters and receiver electronics within the first 10 years, and depending on the customer, this will cost in the range of $50k as a rough estimate. If the tech currently going in is 40Gbps per channel (which it is because we haven't made the jump to 100Gbps or more standard long haul just yet) then within the next 5 years the long haul systems will be out of date. This is a simple fact. The problem is you have no real way of effecting upgrades because the government really doesn't care that much for extra costs when it has a pissweak negotiating platform to begin with.

So, your horse is an idiot, I would say.
06:02am 29/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12678 posts
Really? I know you'll be at least changing out transmitters and receiver electronics within the first 10 years


You specifically mentioned the actual fibre, not any of the equipment
do you think the equipment required to run a copper network lasted forever?
does anything last forever? you could argue that any investment anywhere is a bad idea because one day you'll have to maintain it

a few million dollars a year maintenance to run a network that facilitates access for an entire country is a small price to pay regardless
the network will eventually pay for itself and it creates jobs all over the place, which in turn creates tax payers


Funny. I buy things from overseas all the time with an adsl connection just fine.


what about the hundreds of thousands of people out in the bush who can't get a landline (or equivalent) connection, should we just ignore them?
for that matter why should we give them hospitals, roads or schools, f*****g socialists!

No, they didn't sell the network, they charged a fee for decommissioning it.


not really, at best you're arguing semantics here
If they didn't buy that network you would have had a private company competing directly with a government project and they wouldn't have been able to enforce the cherry picking legislation required to make the whole thing work

If it was still government owned


yeah well, that ship sailed a long time ago, time to move on.


So the solution is let people decide if they want ftth or even fttc.


the people did choose, they chose a labor government that had a campaign promise of a national broadband network

If the tech currently going in is 40Gbps per channel (which it is because we haven't made the jump to 100Gbps or more standard long haul just yet) then within the next 5 years the long haul systems will be out of date.


how do you think we'd fare if we didn't even have 40Gbps gear?
At least in 5 years we'll all be on 40Gbps backhauls, if we don't build the NBN we'll stagnate and the entire country suffers
08:59am 29/02/12 Permalink
dranged
Melbourne, Victoria
1978 posts
teq, do you know why the NBN is layer 2?

In the DSL model, even Telstra pushed their transport up to 3 in anticipation of application orientated/peer-to-peer/FTT* traffic; ie traffic could route prior to the edge/agvc.

Seems to me big thing NBN has got going for it is the possibility of high-bandwidth value-add applications not as yet practical (ie killer vapourware apps)

With this AGVC model then this fantastically sprawling fibre network is just a dumb pipe and bottleneck?

The only reason for the current architecture I can think of is it generates more revenue for NBNco and all the major scalability issues are pushed downstream to retail ISPs.

Which in my mind is wrong, wrong, wrong
09:20am 29/02/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1325 posts
So the solution is let people decide if they want ftth or even fttc.


If you let people decide on any long term infrastructure then you wouldn't have any. People don't care about healthcare, transport, education, anything until they perceive that they need them. Basically people are stupid. Thats not bagging people, thats human nature. If people were reasonable and unbiased towards long term decisions then nobody would smoke, nobody would drink, nobody would eat crap, nobody would speed, everyone would pay their bills on time.

Nobody (by human nature) will inherently argue for loosing money in the short term to have potential benefit in the long term. The only people who argue for it are people who need it now, and those that study the progression of the industry (future-looking). The governments responsibility is to make these decisions based on expert research (economists, technologists, etc). Its the reason why the carbon tax exists, as well as the reason for the public backlash. Its only when s*** starts going wrong that the larger population starts caring about the environment (and with all of these things at that points its too late).
09:23am 29/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12680 posts
teq, do you know why the NBN is layer 2?


Because that's what we want as ISPs, it would be too hard for everyone to let go of their layer2 mindset and allow NBNCo to manage everything, handing us back nothing but IP
also it makes shaping/speed-limiting a lot harder if you can't arbitrarily limit customers connections
not to mention authentication becomes harder and yeah, it just creates more problems than it's worth

Right now the Satellite solution is delivered back to ISPs as layer3 and let me tell you its a god-damn nightmare
They're fixing the Sat problem when they launch their own, but right now there is no alternative

The 'bottle neck' issues are all hype, we've got a lot of customers on 100Mbit plans with huge data limits and they don't even use 40Mbit between them at absolute peak times
When they were all initially connected a few of them did absolutely murder their 100Mbit for days on end, but they eventually got sick of trying to find stuff to download and now they use it like a normal internet connection
10:26am 29/02/12 Permalink
Raven
Melbourne, Victoria
6549 posts
Yeah, I don't see myself needing 100Mbit, but my brother wants it.
I'd like the ability to burst to 100Mbit, but I don't really see the need for it to be there all the time. A nice option would be a plan that's 25Mbps during the peak period, and 100Mbit off-peak.
10:47am 29/02/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
5583 posts
Do we have any time frame on when TPG will be releasing their plans? Or they just sitting back and watching the poo flinging?
11:22am 29/02/12 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
585 posts
If you let people decide on any long term infrastructure then you wouldn't have any.


It hasn't bothered other first world countries with several thousand times better telecom infrastructure than us. We have to face the fact that we are a sparse nation and unless we find a way to geo-engineer the desert into something liveable we will use dated technology else we will be paying far too much to implement relatively modern technology to reach those that live outback.

Besides, I've spent the majority of my life in the bush and honestly superfast internet is something that is not fundamental for business or leisure. At the moment ADSL is plenty fast for the majority of country towns, and people on property can still choose to pay the market price for satellite. (Tip: Satellite isn't ridiculously expensive because of price gouging, it is ridiculously expensive because you need to maintain a single satellite for about 2 people).
04:53pm 29/02/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12776 posts
How many factually inaccurate statements can you fit into one reply? IMG: not sure if trolling or just stupid.
05:01pm 29/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12688 posts
Besides, I've spent the majority of my life in the bush and honestly superfast internet is something that is not fundamental for business or leisure. At the moment ADSL is plenty fast for the majority of country towns, and people on property can still choose to pay the market price for satellite. (Tip: Satellite isn't ridiculously expensive because of price gouging, it is ridiculously expensive because you need to maintain a single satellite for about 2 people).


There's 80,000~ customers on the IPSTAR satellite network that would disagree with you there, of those 80k there would be maybe 10 that could get ADSL
In almost every case a customer on the IPSTAR network is there because they have no other choice, they are mostly (99.5%) government subsidised because an average install is $2750.00 and a service call is anywhere from $400-$1400

Satellite is expensive because it costs hundreds of millions of dollars to launch them and maintain them, but they are most definitely necessary
05:09pm 29/02/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1326 posts
It hasn't bothered other first world countries with several thousand times better telecom infrastructure than us.


What countries are those?...
05:11pm 29/02/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
12029 posts
what about the hundreds of thousands of people out in the bush who can't get a landline (or equivalent) connection, should we just ignore them?
for that matter why should we give them hospitals, roads or schools, f*****g socialists!

Have you changed your mind on the notion of fast broadband as a utility teq?
05:17pm 29/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12689 posts
I just love to argue Hoggy ;)

not to mention as a network admin for an ISP that has customers on NBN, It's in my best interests to be an advocate for it
05:25pm 29/02/12 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
586 posts
How many factually inaccurate statements can you fit into one reply? IMG: not sure if trolling or just stupid.


No information contained in post. Ignored.

There's 80,000~ customers on the IPSTAR satellite network that would disagree with you there, of those 80k there would be maybe 10 that could get ADSL
In almost every case a customer on the IPSTAR network is there because they have no other choice, they are mostly (99.5%) government subsidised because an average install is $2750.00 and a service call is anywhere from $400-$1400

Satellite is expensive because it costs hundreds of millions of dollars to launch them and maintain them, but they are most definitely necessary


Then use dial-up. It still exists as far as I know out west. You're arguing that someone who chooses to live outback has a right to a service at the cost of people who don't choose to live outback. I guess it's just a few people on this forum that think taking from someone and giving to another is morally and ethically above board.

What countries are those?...


Japan is rolling out 1Gbps FTTH. That technology is only 10 times better NOW than what we MAY have in 10 years time.
06:29pm 29/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12690 posts
Then use dial-up. It still exists as far as I know out west. You're arguing that someone who chooses to live outback has a right to a service at the cost of people who don't choose to live outback. I guess it's just a few people on this forum that think taking from someone and giving to another is morally and ethically above board.


A significant percentage of our customers are on solar power, they're so far removed from civilisation that they can't even get power/sewer/Australia post mail deliveries
we have customers that are so far away from anything they have to have someone fly in to do a service call, they will have to drive 4+ hours to go and pickup their mail once a week from a town that is 400-500 kilometers one way, so it takes all day

you're ignorant attitude of 'oh well f*** them for living out there' is pretty easily countered, they could say 'well f*** you dont eat beef'
these people are literally our bread and butter, our steak and bacon, they live out there because they are farmers, they contribute more to this country than your ignorant ass ever will

The UN has deemed internet access a human right, if we, as a first world country can't even even provide our own citizens with a level of access that the UN deem a 'basic human right', we have failed as a society

Japan is rolling out 1Gbps FTTH. That technology is only 10 times better NOW than what we MAY have in 10 years time.


The Australian NBN is capable of delivering 1Gbps right now, there is literally fibre running into peoples homes, you can light that fibre up at whatever speed current technology allows for
It would be significantly more expensive than the current solution, not to mention we aren't Japan.

The area of Japan is 377,873km², which makes it slightly smaller in land mass than California.

Population of Japan - 127,450,459, or about 105 million more people than Australia (population 22,328,800)

Australia's landmass of 7,617,930 square kilometres, or about 7.24 million square kilometers larger than Japan

if you can't grasp that we are in a completely different situation than almost every other country on earth you are really thick, you can't just pick any random country out of thin air to compare us to, it's Apples and unicorns.
07:33pm 29/02/12 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
587 posts
you're ignorant attitude of 'oh well f*** them for living out there' is pretty easily countered, they could say 'well f*** you dont eat beef'
these people are literally our bread and butter, our steak and bacon, they live out there because they are farmers, they contribute more to this country than your ignorant ass ever will


Get mad bro. The difference is that farmers produce cattle, not items for an online retail store. They've done ok without high speed internet for the last 10 or 15 years it has been available. I'd like to see your proof that they will do better with access to it (which they already have).

The UN has deemed internet access a human right, if we, as a first world country can't even even provide our own citizens with a level of access that the UN deem a 'basic human right', we have failed as a society


Ah, the blessed UN tells you what your rights are and that's good enough for you. I prefer the argument that you don't have a right to a service which inherently takes from someone else to be provided.

The Australian NBN is capable of delivering 1Gbps right now, there is literally fibre running into peoples homes, you can light that fibre up at whatever speed current technology allows for
It would be significantly more expensive than the current solution, not to mention we aren't Japan.


The Australian NBN is not capable of that at all. The network is designed for 100Mbps and a lot of the network infrastructure going in will simply not be able to carry more for individual households. You won't win an argument with me about physical network capacity in optical networks. Just give it up now.

Besides, Japan was simply used as an example of how infrastructure succeeds without the need for a government owned body to be created. The fact that you think it is the right thing to do to try and compete with such infrastructure when we have such horrendous disadvantages is far more ignorant than anything I have said.

edit: I'll tell you what this project is equivalent to. It is equivalent to you borrowing $600,000 from a bank to start a business. The collateral you pledge to the debt if your business fails is everyone else's wages for the next 10 years. Sounds like a good deal for the business owner, but a s***house deal for everyone else.
07:42pm 29/02/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12691 posts
Get mad bro. The difference is that farmers produce cattle, not items for an online retail store. They've done ok without high speed internet for the last 10 or 15 years it has been available. I'd like to see your proof that they will do better with access to it (which they already have).


it's not that they need it to rear cattle, they contribute, there fore they should have access to a public network.

Ah, the blessed UN tells you what your rights are and that's good enough for you. I prefer the argument that you don't have a right to a service which inherently takes from someone else to be provided.


Nope, they said something that I agree with, if they didn't say it I would still think it.

The Australian NBN is not capable of that at all. The network is designed for 100Mbps and a lot of the network infrastructure going in will simply not be able to carry more for individual households. You won't win an argument with me about physical network capacity in optical networks. Just give it up now.


you think there is a single point on the NBN that doesn't do 1Gbps or higher?
I agree that the network was not designed to handle 1Gbps right now for every home, but if you had 1Gbps GPONs and 1Gbps NTDs/Routers, it would do 1Gbps - not everyone could get 1Gbps all at the same time, but everyone could have a warm fuzzy feeling about being "connected at 1Gbps"
That said, there isn't a major commercial access network in the world that could support 100% utilisation from every user at any given time, so it's a moot point.

There is no limiting factor in the core network that says 1Gbps from any individual connection would be impossible.

You won't win an argument with me about physical network capacity in optical networks. Just give it up now.


because you're completely close-minded?
did I mention I'm a network admin for an ISP that actually has customers on NBN Fibre?


Besides, Japan was simply used as an example


Doesn't change the fact that no private company in their right mind would ever roll out a network like it in a country that doesn't have such a dense population in such a small geographical area.
If Australia went down that path you would have the major inner city areas connected with fibre and everyone else would have to eat s***, you would be leaving a huge number of people at a major disadvantage to the rest of the country, not to mention the rest of the developed world.
07:57pm 29/02/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
18464 posts
The UN has deemed internet access a human right


LMFAO, they have also included asymmetrical haircuts and iPads as human rights. you don't see us legislating those do you?
09:32pm 29/02/12 Permalink
deve
Brisbane, Queensland
40 posts
11:13pm 29/02/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12777 posts
You won't win an argument with me about physical network capacity in optical networks. Just give it up now.
We won't win an argument with you about anything because you thrive on making logical fallacies and misinformation.

Frankly, I personally am not 100% convinced that the NBN deployment and policy in its current form is the best way to achieve the goals, but what I am certain of is that it beats any of the proposed alternatives I've yet heard.

You flap on relentlessly badmouthing the current situation, yet offer no suggestions on what you think should instead be done to solve the problems that have plagued Australian telecommunications for at least the past decade. That you can debate so passionately without even supporting an alternative solution to me suggests that you're either ignorant of the significance of broadband inequity, the market-stagnating effects of a vertically integrated monopoloy and the need to start readying infrastructure for future needs, or you're just trolling.
12:10am 01/03/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12778 posts
Back on topic. This is kind of interesting (and adds merit to deadlyf's speculations):

http://delimiter.com.au/2012/02/29/telstra-nbn-prices-arent-final-conroy/

Specifically, this bit:
Delimiter has heard from several industry sources that there is dissension within Telstra’s executive ranks regarding the company’s pricing plans. The current swathe of plans are based on the principle, successfully argued by some figures within Telstra, that the company should aim for unified pricing plans across its various fixed broadband offerings.

However, there is also talk of a more modern executive contingent within Telstra’s ranks, which is pushing for more market-sensitive NBN plans that would allow Telstra to more aggressively attack rivals such as iiNet and Optus in the fledgling NBN space.

It is believed that Telstra’s decision to require customers to maintain a copper PSTN telephone line is partially based on the difficulty of modifying the company’s internal billing platforms to cope with telecommunications connections which are not tied to a copper cabling. However, the company has also had a strong historical aversion to the Internet telephony technology which will be used to provide telephone connections over the NBN fibre.
12:20am 01/03/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
18465 posts
You flap on relentlessly badmouthing the current situation, yet offer no suggestions on what you think should instead be done to solve the problems that have plagued Australian telecommunications for at least the past decade.


I am in favour of a variety of solutions to deliver broadband to various areas according to COST effectiveness. Rolling cables all over the country side for 10s of billions of dollars is crazy stuff. I would dearly love just 8mbit internet to my business. I don't need 100mbit.

Industries that need 100mbit cable can congregate together in nodes where those services exist or will be rolled out by private sector. Much more affordable technologies can be rolled out into remote and regional areas.
01:19am 01/03/12 Permalink
eXemplar
Brisbane, Queensland
2718 posts
It would be cost effective to fully monopolise fixed line broadband and artificially limit it to 1.5mbit and charge exuberant prices for bandwidth and regulate out any competition, wireless or otherwise.

Oh wait, you mean cost effective as long as you get what you want, and screw everyone else?

Gotcha.
01:45am 01/03/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1327 posts
I am in favour of a variety of solutions to deliver broadband to various areas according to COST effectiveness. Rolling cables all over the country side for 10s of billions of dollars is crazy stuff.


NBN is a variety of solutions, not just blindly rolling fibre everywhere (satellite as well). I'm sure there were lots of people who thought putting phone lines everywhere was overkill as well.

I would dearly love just 8mbit internet to my business. I don't need 100mbit.

You will in a few years, 10 years ago 50kbps Telstra Cable was cutting edge and most businesses were doing the "why do we need anything faster than 56k". New business opportunities open up as new infrastructure does. On top of that, globalisation means you are more and more likely over time to be competing with overseas businesses who already have this infrastructure.
03:14am 01/03/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1328 posts
Japan is rolling out 1Gbps FTTH. That technology is only 10 times better NOW than what we MAY have in 10 years time.


Yep, ignoring the massive population distribution distance:
- Its been there since 1999
- Its was pushed by NTT, and took years to become profitable (only very recently)
- NTT was "Established as a monopoly government-owned corporation "
- While NTT is now public, "the Japanese government still owns roughly one-third of NTT's shares"
- On NTT and Fibre: (http://gizmodo.com/307203/why-does-japan-get-all-the-super+fast-fiber-optic-love) - "Overall, setting up a fiber optic network is a very expensive prospect with no real guarantees to making all that money back" ... "the Japanese government provides tax incentives for companies to do so."
- And: (http://www.globaltelecomsbusiness.com/Article/2445230/Regions/25186/Japan-looks-at-open-access-for-NTT-fibre-net.html):

The Japanese government is looking at a split of Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation’s fibre-optic businesses into a separate entity which would over open-access services to all operators.

The move is part of efforts by the government, which owns a 33.7% stake in NTT, to extend the coverage of high-speed broadband to all Japan’s households by 2015. The company currently covers only 30% of the Japanese market.


Got another country? :)
03:33am 01/03/12 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
415 posts
This post has been removed.
Reason: Trolling
Send Private Message
07:30am 01/03/12 Permalink
infi
Brisbane, Queensland
18467 posts
On top of that, globalisation means you are more and more likely over time to be competing with overseas businesses who already have this infrastructure.


not in the personal services industry. with 8mb I can even run a full VOIP system. i would love to see the research to show the proportion of the economy that simply could not exist without 100mbit broadband, vs. lower speed broadband. it must be like 5% of the economy surely.

I know public servants like big fat pipes but I am talking about real businesses.
10:11am 01/03/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12697 posts
pretty much exactly what simul said

no little hick country town will be fully fibre'd, they might do the CBD of the town but anywhere more than a kilometer or two outside of town will get stuck on wireless
anyone who is not served by the wireless, either because of LOS issues (terrain/trees/buildings etc) will get Satellite
10:13am 01/03/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12780 posts
It's not about a portion of the economy that couldn't exist without 100mbit infi, surely you can recognise the the potential for the productivity gains that can be had from greater ubiquity of faster (and more reliable) connections. And it's not necessarily single applications that require the whole speed themsleves, but more the extra dependability afforded by fibre and the ability for more people in a residence to use high bandwith services simultaneously.

There's some real credible examples of some of these in this terrific article: http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2012/02/21/3435975.htm If you can't be assed reading the whole thing, just skip down to the subheading "The entire NBN will be paid for by the cost SAVINGS to the health service".

Yes, 8mbit DSL might be enough for some of these applications, but just barely, and only as long as you only want to run one in a house at a time and only as long as the pit out the front of your house hasn't been filled with rain lately, etc, etc.
10:30am 01/03/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4735 posts
As a system administrator our business is definitely looking forward to the NBN we need upload speeds 100ks second doesn't cut it!
10:36am 01/03/12 Permalink
TicMan
Melbourne, Victoria
7786 posts
teq - is there pricing differences from NBNCo based on the port speed and if so how are they justifying it? I want to know why we all just don't get 100mbit connections and just charge the ISPs based on data usage (the same as any other utility).

Also, what's the current & projected provision time like for a new connection? I was involved in setting up some offices in South Korea in a previous job (~5 years ago) and they were able to spit out a 100Mbit service within 8 hours of logging the purchase request which blew me away when all you hear these days is "Up to 10 business days" for DSL provisioning.
10:48am 01/03/12 Permalink
Herron
Brisbane, Queensland
94 posts
One big benefit of getting a fast and reliable connection to the properties out bush is interactive video conferencing (for business, education, health). It's already becoming more and more popular amongst city-based inter/national companies (and hospitals) in reducing travel costs and time and boosting production and sharing resources.

Getting it out to the cattle stations, schools, local GPs who need specialist advice will do wonders.
10:50am 01/03/12 Permalink
simul
Brisbane, Queensland
1330 posts
not in the personal services industry. with 8mb I can even run a full VOIP system. i would love to see the research to show the proportion of the economy that simply could not exist without 100mbit broadband, vs. lower speed broadband. it must be like 5% of the economy surely.


5% currently sure, 15 years ago it would have been 5% that need the internet at all, 10 years ago it would have been 5% that need broadband, 5 years ago it would have been 5% that need mobile internet. This is why the infrastructure needs to be there, for the point when businesses do need it, they aren't waiting 5 years for new infrastructure. This is just how technology evolves. 12 years ago a 17 inch monitor was overkill, why would you need that much screen real-estate, not to mention 21 inch monitors.

Its easy to lose touch though, I was speaking with final year uni students in class this week about minority report and problems with gesture interaction...they had never heard of minority report. Suddenly I realised that when it came out...they were 10. They were playing Half-Life before they started primary school :O. These kids are now about to go out into industry or setting up their own businesses. The world is a crazy place - I love it!.

I know public servants like big fat pipes but I am talking about real businesses.


Public servants already have their big fat pipes, its the real businesses - SMEs (at least those I work with - ranging from retail to hospitality to local services - they are all completely dependant on internet technologies) that are going to need it soon enough. In another 10 years the same fights will be happening, but around "why should they bother upgrading the NBN, 1GBPS is fine for what I do".

last edited by simul at 11:07:31 01/Mar/12
11:00am 01/03/12 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3446 posts
There's some real credible examples of some of these in this terrific article: http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2012/02/21/3435975.htm If you can't be assed reading the whole thing, just skip down to the subheading "The entire NBN will be paid for by the cost SAVINGS to the health service".


I read that article a while ago and noticed there wasn't a single thing there that can't be done using existing broadband at existing speeds.

the list can be summarised by "things that can be done on skype" and "working from home"
11:12am 01/03/12 Permalink
TiT
Brisbane, Queensland
4736 posts
the list can be summarised by "things that can be done on skype" and "working from home"


have you tried working on Terminal server with 5-10 ppl connected to the server when the server is running on ADSL... you cant work!

Small - medium size business cant afford SHDSL or anything higher
11:16am 01/03/12 Permalink
Herron
Brisbane, Queensland
95 posts
the list can be summarised by "things that can be done on skype" and "working from home"


Skype can't do what they are talking about. Skype is great for one on one communication but it is uesless for interactive meetings and multipoint conferences. Existing technology can handle it in major cities but not regional locations. And the government should be doing their best to remove the reliance on being in a large city to conduct business. The push should be to make business viable in regional areas.
11:22am 01/03/12 Permalink
ara
Sydney, New South Wales
3448 posts
Small - medium size business cant afford SHDSL or anything higher


don't host the TS server on a ADSL link, run it from a VPS. they are everywhere and cheap.

the point is, if you are a business, you can either pay for your link or do things smarter. the economic benefits of NBN are dubious at best and the whole time could have been achieved using a much cheaper solution that Telstra wanted to build with their own money years ago.
11:22am 01/03/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12699 posts
teq - is there pricing differences from NBNCo based on the port speed and if so how are they justifying it? I want to know why we all just don't get 100mbit connections and just charge the ISPs based on data usage (the same as any other utility).


They only have so much bandwidth available to each of the neighborhood nodes, for instance you might share a node with 3000 of your neighbors and that might only have 4Gbps (no idea on this figure) so they can't give everyone 100Mbps
You do pay a different port-access fee based on the speed, but it's fairly insignificant - I think the difference between 50 and 100Mbps is like $15


Also, what's the current & projected provision time like for a new connection? I was involved in setting up some offices in South Korea in a previous job (~5 years ago) and they were able to spit out a 100Mbit service within 8 hours of logging the purchase request which blew me away when all you hear these days is "Up to 10 business days" for DSL provisioning.


depends, if your house is already cabled up and you have a NTD on your wall they can activate a service within hours like you say, but say you neglected to fill in the consent form and they have to run the cable, yeah it can take 10 days or so because they will have to come and trench your yard to run the fibre

You can have 4 different ISPs connected in one house if you want, your NTD has a single fibre link coming in that is terminated on the NTD and each of the 4 UNI-D (data) ports on the NTD can run a separate service for a separate ISP (you can have 400Mbps with 4 x 100Mbps services)

The first UNI-V (voice) port has to be tied to the first UNI-D port at this stage but I believe that's changing
11:25am 01/03/12 Permalink
Dan
Special Text
Brisbane, Queensland
12784 posts
I read that article a while ago and noticed there wasn't a single thing there that can't be done using existing broadband at existing speeds.

the list can be summarised by "things that can be done on skype" and "working from home"
You say this from the high horse of someone with 100mbit cable at home and gigabit fibre in your workplace. You have to recognise that we are a infinitesimal minority as a portion of small businesses in Australia, and that can presently take advantage of this luxury scenario is the exception, not the rule.

There has been zero incentive for Telstra to expand their HFC service over the last decade, so they haven't -- only upgrading the speeds their existing deployment. And these remote working functions simply aren't as efficient on DSL.

Trying to do the remote work that I do when I was on DSL was an exercise in frustration, and I was getting sync speeds of around 10mbit then. However, on 100mbit HFC, it's great -- I've even been able to perform some basic video production over RDP -- something I couldn't have dreamed of doing on my DSL. But you can't get HFC in a lot of places and in fact, had I signed up on DSL at my new place, I would be lucky to get 8mbit as I'm 4km from an exchange.
11:39am 01/03/12 Permalink
teq
Brisbane, Queensland
12701 posts
The key problem with existing technologies is A-symmetry, having a 256k upload completely limits your ability to do most anything business related, with the obvious except of sending emails and browsing websites

You can't video conference, you can barely audio conference with it, you certainly can't be uploading large files on a regular basis
11:55am 01/03/12 Permalink
dazedandconfused
Sydney, New South Wales
416 posts
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03:32pm 01/03/12 Permalink
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