AusGamers took Far Cry 4 for a hands-on spin last week. Read on for our full thoughts...
Far Cry 4 Hands-On Preview
We take a look at all the local talent Australia has to offer for the gaming scene
Indie Friday: A Look at Australian Gaming
Joaby Gilroy takes The Sims 4 for a spin on PC and finds out just what the life simulator has to offer.
The Sims 4 Reviewed
We took the five winged, five week challenge with Hearthstone's first campaign and walked away less deathrattled than you might think.
Hearthstone: Naxxramas' Cursed Review
Dota 2 - pretty fun
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2433 posts
Just getting into this recently, man its good fun. Still lots i don't know though so I had some Qs

What classes should stick to what mains? ie; support, ganker, etc..

Should a hard carry be in the middle only?

what maps are the suicide lanes on and wtf does that mean?

how much of a benefit is last hitting? or denying? is it worth all the extra clicking (or delaying of attacks) for a casual/nub?

03:07pm 28/12/12 Permalink
system
Internet
--
03:07pm 28/12/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3279 posts
My explanations:

Last hit is how you get gold. You last hit a creep, the gold (quantity of gold varies depending on creep) is yours. You dont last hit, no gold for you or anybody. Experience is the same no matter if you get the last hit or not unless.

Denying. If you deny a creep, it means the enemy gets no gold (the same as if they missed the last hit) plus they get much less experience (maybe none???) than normal. So denying not only reduces their farm (gold per min) but also decreases their experience per min.

IMO, early game you ONLY want to last hit. No auto attacking creeps. This way the creeps stay closer to your tower and you stay safer. Turn off auto attack. Move constantly so make it harder for enemies to land AOE stuns, hooks etc.

Suicide lane is the bottom lane for dire and top lane for radiant. Both these lanes have the river come BEHIND where creeps normally fight making being ganked easier for the enemy team. A ward normally prevents this (unless invis or smoked) but many pub games dont ward enough.

Who should mid lane is tough. Id go so far as saying it should be the best player in pub games but its difficult to know who that is. Id say hard carry should avoid mid lane cause mid is pretty easily ganked if somebody from a side lane comes to help. Instead id say mid should be somebody who is a ganker or gets a good ulti @ lvl 6 making kills easy. A carry can mid like invoker or shadow fiend but hard carries often are weak early game meaning they need a hero to babysit them in the safe lane.

Any other questions?

Also, cant wait for AUS servers.

Check out:
http://www.youtube.com/user/dotacinema
They do some decent vids. Hero guides, best and worst plays but also gameplay guides like warding, jungling ec.
04:41pm 28/12/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3280 posts
What classes should stick to what mains? ie; support, ganker, etc..

Wasnt sure what you meant.

Some heroes can do the suicide lanes easier than others. Normally heroes with an invis spell, but this can easily be countered by dust, sentry if somebody makes the effort to buy them.

As for last hitting, during the lane game, support heroes want to avoid last hitting enemy creeps and should leave that for the more gold dependent hero they are in the lane with. Nothing worse than playing PA or something and have goddam OM or similar trying to take my last hits. Support should instead focus on denying, harassing enemies, and stacking then pulling the lane. Also buying wards and sentries as necessary for the lane.

I played quite a few hours recently in games filled with bots to practice some heroes. Mainly my pudge hooks. Its a great way for noobs to practice last hits and denies as the bots generally leave them for you if in a lane with them.
04:52pm 28/12/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1167 posts
Just come play league of legends with us cool kids ;)
05:00pm 28/12/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3282 posts
LoL f***. Goddam. I really do not see the appeal in that game. The reeds was a cool idea but no denies?? And i also disliked the teleport channel being stopped if you took damage.
05:03pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8325 posts
LoL f***. Goddam. I really do not see the appeal in that game. The reeds was a cool idea but no denies?? And i also disliked the teleport channel being stopped if you took damage.

I've only just recently gotten into LoL after playing DOTA 2 and HoN, and so far I prefer the champions and the mechanics compared to other MOBAs. Yeah I miss last hitting because it felt detrimental to the opposing team but at the same time it is nice to not have it. Gameplay wise everything still feels the same, it really is just bushes and interruptions to porting back home/teleportation that are "different" to DOTA2/HoN (plus champions obviously).

Also interrupting the teleport channel kind of makes sense, especially when someone tries to teleport out of a battle at very low health. Would kind of be silly if they were made invulnerable when casting.
05:36pm 28/12/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1168 posts
The game is about team fights and team work rather than who can last hit the best ;)
05:38pm 28/12/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1169 posts
Correction, last hitting is still incredibly important, I meant to say who can deny creeps the best...

I think denying creeps pro longs games and makes it boring ;)
05:39pm 28/12/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3283 posts
Would kind of be silly if they were made invulnerable when casting.

But they arent invulnerable in dota / hon.
05:45pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Eorl
Brisbane, Queensland
8327 posts
But they arent invulnerable in dota / hon.

I know, was just referring to your comment about disliking the spell being interrupted upon taking damage. It wouldn't make sense if it didn't disrupt it and they could just keep casting, especially when people usually teleport on low health.
05:48pm 28/12/12 Permalink
csirac
Brisbane, Queensland
2802 posts
Denies provides MUCH less xp against range heroes while a deny vs a melee hero only stops it from getting a little bit of xp.

If you're ranged vs another ranged and you deny 5+ creeps early on (levels 1-6) you will be a whole level ahead.

The ability to last hit separates the good players from the bad. Imo the best way for a noob to have a good game is to get last hits because you will get 2-3x more gold per minute than the nub who doesn't. That said, try to still have map awareness while you spend every ounce of your concentration trying to last hit or you'll likely get ganked. (fun fact, you'll notice a lot of pro team captains don't play carry because they need to keep an eye on the map instead of trying to last hit.)


As for "suicide" and "safe" lanes. The suicide lane is the lane on the side that doesnt have the jungle. and safe is the other side. its suicide because u cant pull creeps and they can gank u really easy!
05:54pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13230 posts
Also about the last hits.

It is important to let your carries get farm. If you are support aim to deny and leave the last hits for gold to your carry, only take the gold if they can't get it.

07:54pm 28/12/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3284 posts
How wouldnt it make sense Eorl? Thats the gameplay mechanic in Dota / HoN and it works just fine IMO. I like that you can escape certain death with a smart TP away. Do all LoL channel spells get cancelled when you take damage?

Denies provides MUCH less xp against range heroes while a deny vs a melee hero only stops it from getting a little bit of xp.

Is that true? I thought the experience reduction was the same for all heroes.
08:33pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2437 posts
Sorry I meant to say what type of heroes go into what lanes. Bit of psych trivia for you, the most common errors in speech are on the lexical level, meaning words that are extremely similar to other words, like 'blushing crow' for 'crushing blow' or mains/lanes

Anyway cheers for the tips guys. I played my first real match today and found a good team with drow that gave me 19-1-7. Drow is the only char I'm good at though :(

last edited by Phooks at 23:31:46 28/Dec/12
11:30pm 28/12/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3287 posts
Heroes into lanes doesnt really matter i think. Try to avoid 2x melee in 1 lane, and try for 1 farm hero, 1 support hero per lane to avoid competing for gold. Hero combos are good if you can get it, such as 2x heroes with stuns, or somebody with a slow/stun to allow juggernaut to spin early game.

Biggest issue you will face is learning each hero's spells and how to use / best avoid them.
11:35pm 28/12/12 Permalink
csirac
Brisbane, Queensland
2803 posts
Is that true? I thought the experience reduction was the same for all heroes.


Very true

Denying occurs when a hero lands a killing blow on an allied creep or hero. Heroes can only target allied units if the creep or hero is under 25% health(50% for creeps). Melee enemy heroes in 1000 range of the denied unit receive 36/n experience and ranged heroes receive 18/n experience, where n is the total number of enemy heroes within the 1000 range. Denying an allied unit prevents the opponents from earning gold.


Basically it's there to stop a melee hero from being completely shutdown in the laneing phase.

source: http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Experience
11:54pm 28/12/12 Permalink
Mitch
Western Australia
533 posts
If anybody wants an invite just message me your email ( or a friends ) and ill send one. I have 3 i don't need.
06:55am 29/12/12 Permalink
Zapo
Brisbane, Queensland
2855 posts
There are many game mechanics in LOL I don't enjoy, which is why I play DOTA2 :P

DOTA2 is a reasonably simple game in terms of the overall game, but it's f*****g painful to master. If you can get through the first few dozen games and are still enjoying it, then you're probably set. I think for new people starting the learning curve can be a bit too steep. Also, there will be an Australian server up early next year too (woot).

To answer your questions:

What classes should stick to what mains? ie; support, ganker, etc
Try out all the heroes....eventually. Different people are naturally better at certain heroes. It also gives you an understanding of what all the heroes are and their abilities, which means you can play against them. I said 'eventually' try them all out, so if you have a great game with a particular hero and want to keep going with that - then give it a few games and move on. If you find you are enjoying melee heroes a bit more, then pick a few melee before mixing it up. Also, when you select your hero it does give you an idea of the role of the character, some blend more into other areas.

Should a hard carry be in the middle only?
No. A strong carry coupled with a strong support can be great in a lane to get first blood and push the tower early. You really want a hero who can get around and try to help 'gank' the other lanes in the mid. That's why Spirit Breaker, Night Stalker etc are usually in mid.

what maps are the suicide lanes on and wtf does that mean?
Well, there's only one map... The safe lane is the lane that doesn't open up into the enemy teams forest. Not sure if that's what you mean.

how much of a benefit is last hitting? or denying? is it worth all the extra clicking (or delaying of attacks) for a casual/nub?
I think others have answered this, but I would focus on last hits, and when you get better then try to get denys as well.
07:14am 29/12/12 Permalink
glynd
Melbourne, Victoria
862 posts
If anybody wants an invite just message me your email ( or a friends ) and ill send one. I have 3 i don't need.


same, I have 7 copies sitting in my inventory.
10:05am 29/12/12 Permalink
Phooks
Brisbane, Queensland
2438 posts
another Q: which is more important, towers or kills? especially early/midgame. I was playing carry with a support and we lost both our towers but we killed the opp lane guys 3 times in a row..
01:36pm 29/12/12 Permalink
XaltD
Queensland
1170 posts
Usually, if you are dominating your lane, don't take out the turret, keep farming the minions and enemy heroes, keep it as a kill lane and get fed.

If you're even or struggling and get an opportunity, kill the turret and roam / jungle

Well, that's what we do in LOL any ways, I'm assuming Dota2 is the same.
01:44pm 29/12/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3289 posts
Yeah, f*** the towers. They give gold to each hero on the team that destroyed it. Where as hero kills give gold and exp while the other hero loses gold and misses out on exp. Try not to lose towers (try to deny) but IMO hero kills much more important.
02:08pm 29/12/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13232 posts
Early pushes or not depends on several factors the most important are what heroes are playing. If you have a team of early heroes vs late game heroes you will need to finish the game ASAP, which means early strong pushes.
02:24pm 29/12/12 Permalink
Mitch
Western Australia
534 posts
Depends on who is getting the kills on top lop lane. If its your carry/semi carry is then its a good trade.
You are loosing about 2k from those towers so if you gonna loose one try to deny the tower.
02:35pm 29/12/12 Permalink
Obes
Brisbane, Queensland
9875 posts
DOTA2 is fun.

It is important to let your carries get farm. If you are support aim to deny and leave the last hits for gold to your carry, only take the gold if they can't get it.

+1 to tollazor

I love lich in the suicide lane. I focus solely on denies. It lets the person I am with (hopefully a carry) focus on last hits and getting a big fat bank roll. And once you hit level 6 the opposition are just a little wary of lich and his ulti giving your carry a bit more freedom.
09:56pm 29/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13288 posts
What classes should stick to what mains? ie; support, ganker, etc..

You have little icons at hero select to show your preferred role but it can be hard to see what is what. The dota2 wiki is a good resource and you can get up to speed on core information for each hero.

Should a hard carry be in the middle only?

Your mid hero should be one that can strongly impact the midgame if they get levels and money quickly, or shut down the enemy midlane. This is often a ganker, harasser or semi-carry with strong ultimate.

Hard carries (like drow or void) are generally best in a side lane with a babysitter. By virtue of being a hard carry (which means can't carry without cas**) they need gold much more than fast levels, and start out easily harass-able as they are weak.

Played a game the other day where I should have requested a lane shift out of mid as Drow vs. Warlock. I'd made a point of wanting the lane though so was kind of stuck.. worked out OK as I caught up on farm and their warlock was bad anyway :p
what maps are the suicide lanes on and wtf does that mean?

Suicide lanes are where you cross into the enemy forest for the last third of the lane - so dire bottom and radiant top. You should always ward these lanes so you can spot incoming ganks.
how much of a benefit is last hitting? or denying? is it worth all the extra clicking (or delaying of attacks) for a casual/nub?

Proper last hitting does a few things, first and foremost you get gold and deny experience. That in itself should be enough.

However by not auto-attacking you also avoid pushing your lane and move the creep wave back to you. In the early lane stage you want to be as close to your tower as possible, especially in the suicide lane. This shuts down the easiest pathway for ganks against you.

Last hitting becomes more elegant and less messy if you turn off auto-attacking, but you then need to manage it yourself with a-move etc and understanding how the game activates auto-attack via ability use and porting etc. You can also try cancelling attack animations with escape (?) but this has never been a good fit for me, I prefer to learn the animations and make a clean strike.

If you are a ranged hero and your lane is relatively safe (no strong / ovewrlapping stuns) you can also get in a bit closer. This will help you time last hits as you don't need to factor in projectile time as well. Also feel free to grab a quelling blade, no shame in making last hitting easier and if you get a few extra cs then you have made up the cost. Just remember that the blade is also very useful to clear trees!
12:44pm 30/12/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13235 posts

Just remember that the blade is also very useful to clear trees!


Super useful to know if their team has Natures Prophet ;)
03:27pm 30/12/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3290 posts
I grab a quelling blade on every melee hero i play. For creep kills, but also for single tree cuts for juking. And NP as mentioned. There are a few spots where a single tree cut can open up a shortcut to chase or escape a hero. Can always just eat a tree with the tangos or whatever they are called.
06:05pm 30/12/12 Permalink
d^
Melbourne, Victoria
1228 posts
% win ratios? Mine is 57-58%
11:10pm 30/12/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3291 posts
Yeah, mine is similar. I recently passed 300 wins and have less than 300 losses IIRC. 90% of the time i play with randoms though so its always luck whether there are more retards on my team or the enemy.

Once Aus servers are up, ill really make an effort to add more people that have a mic n arent total f***wits.
12:35am 31/12/12 Permalink
Hogfather
Cairns, Queensland
13289 posts
% win ratios? Mine is 57-58%

Whats your steam name?

I'd be interested to look up your history on https://dotabuff.com/ - the matchmaker should normally keep you pretty close to 50%, 8% above 50 seems quite high if you have a lot of games, I'm 211 - 224 personally.
02:04pm 31/12/12 Permalink
DeadlyDav0
Brisbane, Queensland
3292 posts
Me: https://dotabuff.com/players/41010281
50.23% win, 661 games.

Good site hog.

Also, longest winning streak - 9. Longest losing streak - 9. lol.
02:10pm 31/12/12 Permalink
Tollaz0r!
Brisbane, Queensland
13236 posts
https://dotabuff.com/players/6460413

53.18%

Highest winning streak 12 Games, longest losing streak - 6.
03:00pm 31/12/12 Permalink
system
Internet
--
03:00pm 31/12/12 Permalink
AusGamers Forums
Show: per page
1
This thread is archived and cannot be replied to.
Close